Recording on a Mac/GarageBand... to DI or not?

The Etherwave is ordered and on its way :)

I've a couple of questions regarding recording via my MacPro (intel). I'm fairly adept at working with GarageBand (and to a lesser extent Logic), and have put together many straight sequenced pieces, and a number of audio pieces using voice and foley (primarily using a C01U USB mic).

Ideally, I'd like to directly connect the Etherwave to the line in (via a small mixer if needed) and record straight into GarageBand. Any effects could (of course) be added in post, but where post effects can be fine, they won't do much for live playing (as they can be such an integral part for some styles).

Is using the Mac/GarageBand combo as a live-play solution (with s/w effects) feasible, or am I going to get killed by the inherent latency in the system? I'm using a pair of
M-Audio BX5a powered monitors, so I'm not too worried about that side of things.

So, am I buying myself a world of pain going the DI route, or should I stick with outboard amp/effects and record via a mic? Of course, this wouldn't have been a problem if the boy hadn't decided to take the Behringer keyboard combo off to college :)

I guess that this is just as applicable to PCs and other s/w, but what can I say, I'm a Mac fan-boy :)

Cheers

Hi Bish,

Classical thereminists will tell you that even tiny amounts of latency are significant (and they are probably right), but for serious experimentalists such as Wilco Botermans and Sarah Angliss the weapon of choice seems to be Max/MSP, and both have told me they don't find the small amount of latency to be a hindrance.

(I note that both Sarah and Wilco use Max to drive hardware as well as process audio - robots and an array of moogfoogers respectively.)

Loopers are also popular. The primary example of a loopy thereminist is Pamelia Kurstin.

Guitar effects pedals have served me well for three years of experimenting, and I am still finding plenty of mileage in them. Especially delays. You'd be amazed how much a theremin can squeeze out of a delay.

I'm considering upgrading, and have been for some time. My front runners at the moment are Max/MSP and the openstomp pedal - http://openstomp.com. Max has the disadvantage that I don't want to take my macbook to gigs - I just don't consider personal computers of any variety to be reliable enough, and the downsides of openstomp are that it isn't available in the UK yet, and it requires Windows.

Thanks for the input Gordon, I suspected the latency was going to be a problem. I think I'm just trying to save a few bucks by looking at what I've got rather than spending. I suspect that a live rig is the way to go, rather than being tied to a computer. Also, even though there is a fair amount of processing power in the MacPro, I tested a small GarageBand sequence, loaded some chorus, flanging and delay on some of the tracks and tried adding a processed live track via the USB mic ... I think the actual message given by GB was "You're joking, right?" Obviously there are limitations.

As for outboard... I'm certainly looking at some different delay units (well covered on this site). Unfortunately before I came to the States I had a clear out and the WEM Copicat tape delay and the rack-mount Tascam digital delay were disposed of. I think my need would be for something that could serve as a decent looper. I'm investigating the Line 6 DL-4, or maybe one of the many units in the Boss range (DD-20 Giga Delay maybe). The Coyote-1 looks interesting (and I could certainly interface via XP under Parallels, or my old laptop. I was unclear as to its looping capability though... I couldn't get my head around the 1.5MB ram/20-bit/44K math (is it fixed at 44kHz/20-bit sampling, or is it user selectable for a longer delay?)

Again, thanks for the input, and I'll check out the players and soft/hardware you mentioned.

Cheers

Well, only the live track need do effects on the fly, but yes, inevitably it has limitations.

One option you can try for free is Audio Hijack Pro - there's a demo version available for download and if it's good for you then it's only 30 bucks.

http://rogueamoeba.com/audiohijackpro/

One of it's features is that you can quickly build up [i]networks[/i] of audio plugins (VST, Audio Units, LADSPA) to process sound realtime.

I'm curious about the amount of delay the Coyote-1 can provide when it's running other effects too. Hopefully by the time buying one is an option I'll have formulated some sensible questions for the openstomp forum. Darned tricky though - the answer to how much any programmable system can do is invariably "it all depends."

(I suspect the answer is actually "plenty" - my experience with pedals is that it doesn't take a lot of pedals to produce a lot of effect. If I wanted a looper I'd buy a looper.)

I would imagine using the computer as part of the live rig would be frustrating ... especially if you forget to take it offline.

I bought a nice Behringer MIDI footpedal controller to control the Behringer effects unit in my rig. Problem is that it's too complicated for me and would detract rather than help when playing guitar live. So the rack unit gets to live on only one setting for everything and the footpedal control collects dust :(

Don

Today's intense on-line research makes outboard delay/looping look like the wise choice (I feel a DD-20 in my future). I'll use the onboard GB effects only for tweaking in post. I don't want to be tied to the computer for performance... be they only "family jams" at the moment.

Thanks for the tip about AudioHijack Pro... I actually bought it some time ago for recording some of the on-demand BBC stuff. I hadn't investigated the processing options. They look like fun and may work well for post, but I think I'll go with outboard option for the moment. I spend too much time sitting at the computer as it is!

Thanks for all the input.
Cheers

GordonC wrote:
"Max has the disadvantage that I don't want to take my macbook to gigs - I just don't consider personal computers of any variety to be reliable enough"

Whether or not you consider them so, the fact is that they are. I use my MacBook Pro for live gigs all the time. So do many, many other musicians (often with Max!). There's no problem with doing so, and by going with a false impression of unreliability, you may be unreasonably diminishing the set of tools at your disposal.

It's probably just my background - I spent a lot of time hanging around people working on safety critical systems - computers used in applications where people die when things go wrong - I'm sure it would be fine in practice, but it just doesn't sit comfortably with me and I don't like to go on stage worrying about stuff.

You couldn't pay me to rely on a computer onstage.

I've seen way to many lay down on the job. From my crappy home internet beast, to fancy Mac notebooks, all the way up to REALLY expensive Macs in REALLY expensive recording studios. They always die right when you need them.

Huh? I work in IT between gigs...I like to think I'm familiar with what computers will amd won't do. :). And I can pretty confidently say that if you've set things up properly, this isn't a problem.

I only came to using a computer in live performance fairly recently, but it's making it possible for me to schlep a lot less gear around and do more interesting stuff. I had one problematic gig early on, but that was the result of a bad cable, nothing to do with the computer.

Certainly it pays to be cautious, but based on my experience, I'd much rather rely on a computer on stage than on a big pile of "dumb" gear. I don't know where all this FUD about the reliability of computers on stage comes from, but it does not reflect the current state of the technology.