classical indian music on theremin?

hello to all.

i am new to this forum and have some questions.

is there anybody who plays clasical indian ragas on theremin?

i am planing to buy a etherwave standard th, because i have read it is more playable than an ethermax, i might consider a theremax if it is as playable, but i like the cv control abilities of the theremax, plus its also cheaper, i have a large analogue synth colection, ad would love to control the synths with a theremin.

any feedback... just holler..or whisper or whatever...

I don't know if there is anyone who plays proper ragas on the theremin, although playing the theremin accompanied by a drone is a very effective combination.

Peter Pringle has been a student of Indian music since the sixties and has produced several recordings featuring the theremin and surbahar. The only ones available on the internet are of him playing the surbahar along with the Moog Ethervox, which he is using as a MIDI controller.
He has done a couple of others where he plays Indian flavored music while playing the theremin in the tradition manner. Unfortunately, we have no way of posting them here.

Here are a couple of links that may be of some interest to you.

Pringle Music (http://www.peterpringle.com/thereminmp3s.html)

Pringle Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCCSuU7kXM8)

It is worth noting that Mr Pringle has stated on several occasions that he does not think Indian music in general is well suited to the theremin. His reasoning is that quarter tones are to closely spaced to be played accurately.

Welcome to Theremin World. :-)

Having studied Indian music a bit I'd say it is well suited to Indian music. Indian music is primarily a vocal tradition as opposed to an instrumental tradition which Western music is for the most part.
I don't see why quarter tones would be a big problem. Also, the use of quarter tones is overstated in Indian music and they are not used all that much except as inflections. They are not using equal temperament of course but it's also common among singers and violinists (and thereminists) in the west to make leading notes etc. smaller than their piano counterpart.
I studied Indian violin a while back and my teacher would slide up and down one string with one finger. It always struck me that this was very much like playing the theremin.

It will be interesting to hear how that works out.

I think you want the etherwave rather than the theremax for playability.

I have read some good reports of Analogue Systems's RS35 Module (External Source Processor) for converting theremin pitch and volume to voltage.

http://analoguesystems.co.uk/

I wrote the following some time ago in response to someone who had asked similar questions about the use of the theremin in Indian music.

*********************************

As a serious student of classical Northern Indian music (surbahar and rudra vina) for more than 40 years, and as a student of the theremin for the last ten years, I would like to explain exactly why I believe it is not possible to play Indian raga on the theremin.

First of all, there is the matter of vibrato.

Precision theremin cannot be played without vibrato because it is vibrato that gives the thereminist the leeway to constantly adjust or “trim” the pitch of the instrument as he or she plays.

Classical Indian music, on the other hand, does not use vibrato at all because it is a quarter tone system in which the octave (or ‘saptaka’) has twenty-two “srutis” or microtones. If you play vibrato in Indian music, you are actually encroaching on the adjacent note. (I should perhaps add that modern “Bollywood” pop, which is highly westernized, does use vibrato).

Indian music has evolved over millennia along with the instruments that are used to play it, so the instruments and the music are perfectly suited to one another. When western instruments are introduced, such as the guitar or the violin (which was probably introduced by the Portuguese over 300 years ago) the playing techniques must be adapted to the Indian musical idiom. Vishwa Mohan Bhatt has successfully adapted the guitar to Indian raga but in order to do that he had to modify it, creating an entirely new instrument called the “mohan vina”.

Some instruments, like the harmonium (which was introduced by the English in the 18th century) have never really fitted Indian music but have remained popular in India in spite of that. Just as a historical footnote, the harmonium was banned from use on All India Radio following independence in 1947. Curiously, only a decade earlier, the Third Reich in Germany had banned the use of the harmonium’s cousin, the accordion.

Indian music requires a far greater degree of precision pitch control than it is possible to acquire on the theremin. People often think that because the theremin can play “meend” (a slide from one note to another) that it ought to be able to play Indian raga but this is a result of a lack of familiarity with the theremin and its limitations. There are many Indian musical ornaments and embellishments, such as fast “tans” (rapid successions of defined notes) that it is not possible to play at all on a theremin.

We thereminists have enough problems trying to stay in tune in a 12 tone system, without having to worry about a system in which there are 22 tones.

But you can play theremin without vibrato!!!
Are we saying here that it's impossible to play Indian music or difficult? I'd say difficult.

Merula wrote:

But you can play theremin without vibrato!!!
Are we saying here that it's impossible to play Indian music or difficult? I'd say difficult.

*********************

Let me rephrase that!

I have never heard anyone play precision theremin with apparent, consistent accuracy without using vibrato, and I am definitely not able to do it myself. (It is possible to play VERY simple melodies without vibrato and sound a bit like a boy soprano. What they call in Italian a "voce bianca" = "white voice").

As for Indian music on a theremin, I'd say it is difficult to the point of impossibility.

I had the same Indian music discussion with Pamelia Kurstin a number of years ago and my position was the same then as it is now. Pamelia insisted that just because I was not able to do it did not mean that it could not be done.

She was right.

I'm waiting for someone to prove me wrong and I would be delighted if they did!

As a violinist I was amazed when i first heard Indian violin played perfectly in tune without vibrato over such virtuosic phrases (check out L.Shankar in Shakti with John Mclaughlin). Vibrato, as well as being an expressive device is also used on violin to cover bad intonation. Then you hear someone like L.Shankar and your whole world changes!

woah! I never imagined my post would cause so much controversy. but hey! good times!!

and i have decided on the moog etherwave standard, it looks like it is much more playable than the ethermax although i ownt have that ability on control on cv synths inmediatly.

as for the indian classical music on the theremin, the peter pringle videos are very interesting although they are very experimental, he seems a pretty good surbahar player, as for the theremin, hmmm i'll reserve my thoughts.

i'd love to see sombody playing a simple raga on theremin.

interesting that you guys mention L. Shankar, I used to play electric violin (before i was a victim of mexican insecurity) and L. Shankar and his 10 string electric violin was my inspiration for getting a violin and start getting lessons so i figure i'm not that crazy.

and yes L. Shankar and even more so his brother L. Subramaniam have been able to play the intricacies of classical south indian music masterfully. and without using vibrato. but then again you do have the the reference of the string when you are trying to find a tone, something that on the theremin you do not. and yet they are able to play meends and tans and make it look and sound soooo effortless.

I hope I wil be able to play classical indian on the theremin, i will write back to you guys to tell you of my paractice once i get my etherwave.

thanx a lot for the tips and advice, and hapy theremining!