Using a Talking Machine with Etherwave Standard/Plus

Posted: 5/30/2012 10:28:02 PM
GordonC

From: Croxley Green, Hertfordshire, UK

Joined: 10/5/2005

This thread is for the benefit of classical thereminists considering getting an Electro Harmonix Talking Machine effects pedal, following Peter Pringle's demonstrations of its use to make music remarkably similar in tone to a tenor opera singer.

The first point to note is that the Talking Machine effect is only a starting point. Much of the similarity stems from the player playing in the style of an opera singer.

Secondly, it is unlikely that you will achieve exactly the same voice as Mr Pringle - the sound of the theremin he used is unique, and the sound of the theremin has a large bearing on the sound produced by the Talking Machine. Rather you have the opportunity to find your own personal theremin voice, just as every singer has a unique voice.

The Talking Machine performs best when presented with a sound which is rich in harmonic content. The sound produced by the etherwave is not particularly rich in harmonic content. Increasing the brightness of the theremin sound will increase the Talking Box effect, and altering the waveform will also alter the range of sounds that can be produced by the Talking Machine.

If you are finding that the effect is still not pronounced enough for your taste, you can increase the harmonic content of the sound from the theremin by conditioning it with another effects pedal placed before the Talking Machine. There are a great variety of ways to increase harmonic content, but guitar distortion and fuzz pedals are appropriate here.

There are a massive number of such pedals, each one claiming its own unique sound and superiority over other pedals. None of them claim particular suitability for theremin+Talking Machine usage. So this is your opportunity to try out a selection of them at a local music shop, and/or owned by musician friends, and find the one that most pleases you. This is probably best done after becoming familiar with the operation of the Talking Machine, which is a fairly complex pedal, with a great many options with varying degrees of applicability to classical theremin usage.

One thing you will discover is that many of these pedals (certainly the selection that I have tried) have settings which are unusable as the combination of the distortion or fuzz pedal followed by the Talking Machine leads to a lot of hiss when the theremin is muted. This limits the range of sounds that it can produce, and hence the range of tones that you can select from. 

This limitation can be overcome by inserting the distortion or fuzz pedal in the effects loop of the theremin. An effects loop is a way of inserting an effect into the middle of the theremin circuit, after the oscillator but before the volume of the sound it produces is varied by the volume loop part of the circuit. At the time of writing, only Subscope theremins are available with prefitted effects loops. Etherwave theremins are not.

I had my Etherwave Standard fitted with an effects loop by Thierry Frenkel, and he has told me that he is happy to offer the same modification to other etherwave owners. (** Thierry ** please could you post your preferred means of contact for this service.)

I should note that an effects loop can be put to other uses than quieting pedals that are noisy when they should be silent. Some pedals are equipped with a noise gate which mutes the pedal (and hence hides any hissing) when the sound received by it drops below a certain level. This is terrible for theremin usage, as it becomes impossible to bring the sound up smoothly from silence. This does not occur when the pedal is in the theremin effects loop, as it always receives a sound from the theremin oscillator, so the noise gate never cuts in.

Putting distortion and fuzz pedals in the effects loop can also improve the quality of the sound produced. (Here I differentiate between a change in the tone and an improvement, which is a change akin to the difference heard when playing the same record on a better sound system.) Certainly it improved my fuzz pedal, particularly in the higher frequencies, reducing screechiness and making more of the settings for the fuzz pedal acceptable to me. I am not sure why this is, not being an electronics expert.

Note that pedals that rely on changes in the volume of a sound for parts of their behaviour will not display those behaviours whilst in a theremin effects loop.

There is rather more to the effects loop modification that Thierry made to my etherwave than I have described so far.

One unrelated benefit of this more sophisticated modification is that it makes a perceptible improvement to the tone of the theremin in ordinary operation.

(Thierry did not burden me with a detailed technical explanation of why this is, but I understand it is because the volume control and the waveform shaping circuits of the etherwave are both contained within a single chip, which is not optimal and leads to some degrading of the sound. As the modification requires a second such chip to be installed the two functions of volume and waveform can be allocated to separate chips, so this degradation does not occur.)

The modification works like this. The constant volume sound from the theremin's oscillator is split into two separate paths. One goes through the directly to the volume and waveform circuits and comes out of the audio socket of the etherwave.

The other path leads to a new audio out jack socket - this is where one would connect the "in" socket of a distortion pedal. The "out" socket of the pedal would be connected to another new socket an audio in socket, where the sound goes into the theremin and through a new volume and waveform circuit, separate from the original one, but sharing the same volume loop and waveform and brightness knobs as the original volume circuit.

This new volume/waveform circuit leads to a third new socket, another audio out jack socket, where the sound processed by the pedal in the effects loop comes out, and which varies in volume according to the player's proximity to the volume loop.

One relevant advantage of this more complex system is that both the altered tone and the unaltered etherwave tone are available at the same time and can be mixed together after the distorted tone has been further processed by the Talking Machine, giving the opportunity to moderate the effect and give it more or less of a theremin-like sound as desired. Typically one would achieve this using a mixer. (See this thread for why having a small mixer is a good idea anyway.)

One final point about Thierry's modification is that all three audio out sockets (the original one, the constant volume one and the new one after the volume circuit) have associated volume controls, so that the maximum volume of any of them can be reduced. This is beneficial for increasing the range of guitar pedals that can be used with the etherwave, as some guitar pedals do not perform correctly with the audio levels produced by the etherwave, which are significantly higher than the volumes produced by guitars.

It also means that in the absence of a mixer (*) to combine the two outputs as described above, or to control their mix without turning away from the theremin, one can turn the output volume knobs to adjust how much of each sound is heard.

(*) I do not have one to hand to test this, but I believe that a simple Y connector could be used to combine the two signals, given that the mix can be controlled with the output volume knobs. 

There are other uses for this modification which are probably better suited to experimental than classical players. You can wire things up in all sorts of odd ways!

Posted: 5/30/2012 10:42:00 PM
RS Theremin

From: 60 mi. N of San Diego CA

Joined: 2/15/2005

I must have missed the point, getting old you know. (-'

All that to promote Thierry and no sound byte to prevent or encourage others of what is to be expected with a EtherWave Standard using the TM?

Posted: 5/30/2012 11:10:27 PM
GordonC

From: Croxley Green, Hertfordshire, UK

Joined: 10/5/2005

No, all that to help people get the best out of their setup. If people want someone other than Thierry to modify their theremin, that is their choice. And if it was to "promote Thierry" then I would have absolutely no problem whatsoever recommending him for theremin modifications. I have trusted my etherwave to him twice, one for a totally experimental modification that had never been done before and which took a great deal of research to make work, and work it does, more excellently than I could have wished for. He is a great theremin engineer.

And yes, no sound bite. As mentioned, a great deal of the opera singer effect has nothing to do with the Talking Box, and everything to do with the player. I am not a classical player. You need to hear a piece of classical music, well played, to get a proper impression of what can be achieved, and I am not equipped with the skills to do that. 

Also the intent is not to help people decide whether or not they want to buy a Talking Machine, it is for people who have already decided to.

If you want to hear what a Talking Machine will sound like with you playing your theremin, take it to a music shop and follow the instructions at the start of the instruction manual.

Nonetheless, if someone wants to create a useful sound bite and post it below, please do so.

Posted: 5/31/2012 2:04:26 AM
RS Theremin

From: 60 mi. N of San Diego CA

Joined: 2/15/2005

Gordon said: "You need to hear a piece of classical music, well played, to get a proper impression of what can be achieved, and I am not equipped with the skills to do that."

Here in the states they race something called funny cars, they are nothing to laugh at, almost terrifying.

A raw sound byte would be "can I hear your engine, rev it". In no way does it suggest how the machine is going to perform in the right hands. Most people with a theremin will barely even start their engine and if they do it will probably misfire. A sound byte and a theremin voice are two separate things.

Starting the engine can reveal something to someone like me, a theremin mechanic who has no intention of driving the car.

Posted: 5/31/2012 8:24:22 AM
GordonC

From: Croxley Green, Hertfordshire, UK

Joined: 10/5/2005

I would certainly post an audio sample on one of the technical, engineer oriented threads about the Talking Machine, except the criterion I applied whilst choosing my particular fuzz pedal was not for its ability to give the set-up an opera singer like voice. My reasons for buying a Talking Machine were quite different to those under discussion at the moment and I do not want to dilute the discussions with my thoughts about experimental theremin use.

Posted: 9/9/2012 2:07:11 PM
AlKhwarizmi

From: A Coruña, Spain

Joined: 9/26/2010

I finally decided to buy a Talking Machine. This week I received it and tried it with my Etherwave Plus. At the moment I'm not using any fuzz pedal or effects loop as suggested by Gordon, since that would require a larger investment, and I'm improving my equipment a little at a time. So at the moment, I'm just using the TM followed by a reverb pedal and the amp.

I'm satisfied with the sound that comes out of the TM, although I need to practice in order to learn how to extract the best out of it, since obtaining a pleasant vibrato seems really important to getting a pleasant sound out of the TM (more so than with the bare theremin). But I think I'm going to like this pedal and get lots of fun/challenge out of it :)

But first, I would need to solve a technical problem: when I play the theremin at a low volume everything is fine, but when I play louder by moving my hand further away from the volume loop, the sound becomes harsh and unpleasant. From what I've read in these forums, I suppose this is overdrive. It never happened to me with the other pedals I tried or with my amp. With the TM, this unpleasant effect is less marked if I adjust the "sensitivity" knob all the way to the left, but it still happens anyway.

Does this mean that the TM wants a quieter signal and I need to get an attenuator and connect it between the theremin and the TM?

Posted: 9/9/2012 3:20:14 PM
RS Theremin

From: 60 mi. N of San Diego CA

Joined: 2/15/2005

AlKhwarizmi said: "Does this mean that the TM wants a quieter signal and I need to get an attenuator and connect it between the theremin and the TM?"

Yes, I covered my experience as a tech and not musician at the bottom of this page.

To listen to it being used in the hands of a master is a major break through in the world of theremin. Skill is one thing but to set it up properly for consistent repeatable performances may lead to slow acceptance. It does seem to have a narrow window of play not to mention it could get boring if everyone used it. The fact that most theremins naturally sound different does not occur using the Talking Machine. It can be beautiful but anything theremin never seems to come easy, maybe for a few of you?!#$%

Christopher

Posted: 9/9/2012 4:37:22 PM
AlKhwarizmi

From: A Coruña, Spain

Joined: 9/26/2010

Googling around, I see that there are very cheap attenuators, but there are also high-end ones for several hundreds of dollars. Is the quality of the attenuator really important? It seems like lowering the volume of the signal should be a simple matter!

Posted: 9/10/2012 12:55:06 AM
Amethyste

From: In between the Pitch and Volume hand ~ New England

Joined: 12/17/2010

Yooohoooo!!

I do not have an Etherwave ~ But a Subscope V-3 ~ and I was very successful in obtaining a gorgeous operatic voice with the Talking Machine. I do not have an attenuator in my set-up and it works just fine. I don't see that the subscope overdrives the amp, but i do have this problem with my Wavefront and I ran across a very generous Christopher who came to my rescue and gifted me with an attenuator and it's great with my Wavefront. You can look on Amazon and get your hands on an "Art" one. That's what I have and so far, it's working great.

If any one of you want to view my video with the Talking machine, please click:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMOxMWCgfU8

Happy TMachining!

Posted: 9/10/2012 12:59:38 AM
Amethyste

From: In between the Pitch and Volume hand ~ New England

Joined: 12/17/2010

I might go on a tangeant here, but the use of the Talking Machine really helped me to develop my arm fine tuning regarding vibrato. Maybe the relation is clearer to me because I also sing, and emulating a believable vibrato with the TM was crucial for me. Now when I don't use the TM, my vibrato has greatly improved. I bought the TM at first because I was curious to see/hear what result i would get with my Subscope, but I got pleasantly surprised when I also discovered an unique and powerful learning tool to achieve an even better vibrato.

Money well spent in my opinion!

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