The musical saw

I’ve been listening to a CD of musical saw music and it has occurred to me that the sound is very similar to that of the theremin.
Given that the musical saw seemed to first find it’s exposure in the 20s and 30s, around the time of the theremin, why is it that the musical saw was never taken and used like the theremin to make weird (aka avant-garde ) noises on any films of that era?

marlene dietrich played "singende säge". :-.

"why is it that the musical saw was never taken and used like the theremin to make weird (aka avant-garde ) noises on any films of that era?" - RoyP

Interesting question! - Interesting enough to get me to view some musical saw performances, and even tutorials!

My guesses? -

1.) Novelty. The theremin looked the part for Sci-Fi and horror, and even if the saw could have done the job, the theremin looked more likely to suit the job.

2.) The saw, to my ears, is clearly recognizable as acoustic - to me it has a quality not found in the theremin - I admit that I really dont like its sound nearly as much as I like even an EW ;-) ... Also, it seems to me that the bass register is particularly inferior to the theremins, and rapid pitch change is probably more difficult on the saw.

But I suspect the main reason was novelty - I think even if the saw sounded like a theremin, and the theremin sounded like a saw, they would probably have used the theremin! ;-)

But its one of those things which is pure guess and we will never know - AarrggH, yet another known unknown! ;-)

Fred.

AarrggH, yet another known unknown! ;-)

Being a Scot, this has particular reasonance for a certain up and coming thing...Ok...off topic and please don't pick up on my reference to this but I just couldn't resist it!

Anyhew, novelty value, yes I guess that is probably the thing Fred.

I suppose that in the 20's and 30's etc electricity was the new kid on the block and the theremin was THE embodiment of that new age.

I've listened to the musical saw CD again a couple of times and what comes across is the noise of the scraping of the bow against the steel miced in to the noise of the steel wobbling: there is a certain harshness there.

Having said that, I was at a cabaret performance tonight where said saw player played in a segment and for the life of me, I could imagine Lydia K playing her T-Vox and having the exact same effect.
Both would have been fab!

Roy

Deliberately OT and political, ignoring wishes of RoyP who brought this up... ;-)

"Being a Scot, this has particular reasonance for a certain up and coming thing." - RoyP

Sorry, I just cant ignore this! ;-) .. My father was Scottish (Glasgow) and if I could choose to leave the UK for Scotland I would jump at the chance! - An Independent Scotland is something I would give my eye teeth to be part of. IMO you folks have a once-in-a-lifetime (or longer) chance of escaping from the bloodsuckers at Westminster! Go for it!!!!

Fred.

So far off topic it should be in 'Trout and Salmon Monthly'

Fred, (ya bugger!) as Margo Macdonald said, 'Imagine the party the day after a NO vote.'
I know where my X is going and it is for a better Scotland.

You ALL are welcome!

Roy

Roy,

You are probably right! Who knows.. Nationalism is something I hate and could sour things.. It all comes down to the complexity of the damn matrix - it will go the way its scripted to go, for better or for worse.

Sadly though, IMO you are wrong about "You ALL are welcome!" - that is not the case anywhere on Earth now, and probably never will be the case. We proclaim our 'openness' but at our core we haven't changed that much in the last 100k years, IMO we are still apes.

Fred.

OT? Yeh.. But who wants to talk about theremins or saws anyway ;-)

.. and back on topic. (before i offer my skills to get hadrians wall back in order.)

this video is a exemple of how a insrument is discoverd, used and the final backslap . at about 5:30. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmTqquhstEQ

Fred I use IExplore 11 had the post vanish like you have, always back up!

Sadly though, IMO you are wrong about "You ALL are welcome!" - that is not the case anywhere on Earth now, and probably never will be the case. We proclaim our 'openness' but at our core we haven't changed that much in the last 100k years, IMO we are still apes. – Fred

The little chimps below have the same excitement over the monolith, as do the kids that come into shop and experience a theremin for the first time. The kids should be the focus of the Frewdew market. If you want to have more Class than the Theremini then make your design without the approval of about a half a dozen Europeans who fell off a horse, no they probably can’t even ride a horse. Promote the Fredew as theremin-like but better; do not call it a theremin directly because it does not have the original engine.

Think about it, what has more Class, a 356 Porsche with a VW Beetle motor installed or a VW Beetle with a Porsche engine. The real question is what is China doing now the Theremini exposed our cult.

Hello T.

First - I am not in the theremin production arena anymore.. The Fredew theremin isn't going to happen unless you have some crystal ball that sees things I have not even imagined... Certainly wont be a "Fredew" - Dewster is way ahead in this game, the only possible combined "future" I could see would be a Dewster theremin with me tacking some analogue onto it. I could not even start to deal with the complexities of what Dewster is doing via his FPGA.

I think Dewsters ideas hold huge promise for the theremin front-end and processing - I see it as opening the door to linearity and low latency and adjustable span which will revolutionize the instrument... The ONLY area I have ANY reservations about is the sound engine - But even here, I suspect I am failing to see the potential or being too pedantic.

However - IF the Dewstermin gave a 1V/Octave CV out, I have a true heterodyning analogue theremin circuit which could accept this, and there is a TINY possibility this would be worth doing. Right now though, my technical focus is not on the theremin per-se, I am (have been for ages) developing my "Levitator (R)(C)(TM)" - two forms of this circuit, the better takes var and reference signals and mixes them and adds (player adjustable)  formant's, the easier / cheaper / most universal takes audio from any theremin.. The idea being to imITATE the 'vocal' characteristics of a LEV theremin.. The full Levitator is being worked on with my capacitive ribbon controller, and if I get to releasing anything, it will be this or the add-on levitator audio processor - although it uses theremin principles and voice, it will NOT be a theremin.

But Fundamental Designs Ltd is about to go under, or at least dormant (stop trading) and my chances of going anywhere with any of my stuff is tiny - As I said before, it will all be given to the public domain anyway - but im only going to publish stuff I am happy about.

Fred.