Idea for a Pedagogic Theremin Pitch Assistant

Posted: 9/21/2014 6:34:01 PM
GordonC

From: Croxley Green, Hertfordshire, UK

Joined: 10/5/2005

 As an experimental thereminist exploring some possibilities on non-pitch-critical theremin music the requirement to play "in tune" does not apply to me, so I have no intention to follow this idea through to a working prototype in order to test the validity of my proposal. Nonetheless I think it has sufficient merit that I would like to share it with the denizens of Theremin World.

I note that the requirement to play in tune is the first major hurdle to many would-be thereminists. Undoubtedly the ideal way to master this skill is with the aid of a theremin tutor who can provide feedback to the theremin student. However, as theremin tutors are a sparse resource, it may be desirable for a student to have a device which does as a tutor would do; provide positive feedback when a note is in tune.
 
There have been many suggestions as to how this might be accomplished. One is currently being discussed in this forum, based around a visual display. Opinion is divided regarding the efficacy of a visual system. My intuition is that this is not the best approach - the thereminist may be using their eyes for other purposes, for instance to read sheet music or to look at the horizon as an aid to maintaining balance and minimise body motion, or may be completely focussed on hearing the theremin and hence not paying attention to visual stimuli. My intention is not to undermine that proposal - some students may prefer that approach, and when tested it may yet prove to be the superior solution.
 
Although some theremin tutors may see benefit in a feedback system that provides negative feedback to misplayed notes by means of a powerful electrical current applied to the student, it is more humane to consider a system based on positive audio feedback. I take my inspiration for this from the observation that when I have seen theremin tutors at work, they will often say an encouraging word when the student is in tune.
 
It is important, in my opinion, that any audio based system should not affect the way the theremin pitch field responds to a player's interaction with it, as this would be at odds with the goal of learning to interact with the theremin without pitch assistance. Therefore I suggest that the feedback should come via a second audio channel: either via the "pitch preview" favoured by some thereminists, or a small loudspeaker placed adjacent to the theremin.
 
The feedback should mimic the behaviour of a tutor, making a brief, pleasant sound when the pitch of the theremin corresponds to a tone in the tuning system being used, typically A440 12TET. The sound should have a sharp attack and be of short duration - a "ping" - something like a staccato piano note or a glockenspiel note - and be of the same pitch as the note being played to reinforce the desirable pitch in the player's mind. 
 
As vibrato is often a feature of classical theremin playing, I note that the effect of a well played, tight vibrato on the pitch assistant would be to cause it to play a rapid sequence of pings in the pitch of the note being played, and without either of the adjacent notes triggering a ping.
 
 
 
Posted: 9/21/2014 7:01:42 PM
rkram53

From: Northern NJ, USA

Joined: 7/29/2014

GordonC - I'm sure a lot of your ideas have merit. I've been proposing using the theremin as an ear-training tool.

As someone who taught ear training for a number of years and also co-authored a text being used in colleges today, I can say that many kids have trouble hearing they are in tune when they sing. Well, one approach would be to sing into an amp and get better feedback, but the unusual thing about the theremin is that it has such an astonishing feedback system that links the body with pitch like no other instrument.

I believe divorced from pitch displays or any other visual feedback system, the mere use of the theremin will help in pitch training. Simply learning how to play it will improve anyone's sense of pitch as long as you are playing along with something so you can get a fixed pitch reference. It takes the problem and externalizes it from the vocal chords. I have no proof, but I assume after a while, if the student can start matching pitches on the theremin, they will be more inclined to do it vocally as well. In truth it's a heck of a lot more difficult to stay in tune on the theremin than singing in tune.

Methods to use the theremin in this manner like you propose are certainly interesting. I'm trying to convince a professor friend on mine that is an expert in aural theory to try giving the theremin a test in this area.

Rich

 

Posted: 9/21/2014 8:06:22 PM
FredM

From: Eastleigh, Hampshire, U.K. ................................... Fred Mundell. ................................... Electronics Engineer. (Primarily Analogue) .. CV Synths 1974-1980 .. Theremin developer 2007 to present .. soon to be Developing / Trading as WaveCrafter.com . ...................................

Joined: 12/7/2007

"The feedback should mimic the behavior of a tutor, making a brief, pleasant sound when the pitch of the theremin corresponds to a tone in the tuning system being used, typically A440 12TET. The sound should have a sharp attack and be of short duration - a "ping" - something like a staccato piano note or a glockenspiel note - and be of the same pitch as the note being played to reinforce the desirable pitch in the player's mind. " - GordonC

I think that's a great idea Gordon! - Quite similar to my On-Key-Emphasis idea presented several times, but with an added "ping" !

And actually, there's no reason to restrict this idea to the theremin - a simple modification/ addition to the standard digital tuner could probably work for voice and instrument tuning - Get the note right, and it pings the note back to you...

Much bigger potential for a product like this than any purely theremin-related stuff I think.

Fred

 

Posted: 9/22/2014 1:51:12 AM
rkram53

From: Northern NJ, USA

Joined: 7/29/2014

Guys,

One thing to be mindful of. Ear training courses are typically the most boring, frustrating and hated in music school. They are all required and likely no one would show up if they were not.

So whatever the tools, the number one priority is that they are fun and interesting to use. That's why I see the theremin as a great tool. It's a lot of fun to play. 

Maybe a device that puts out a tone and listens for a pitch match held for a certain amount of time. You could program tunes in it or other things and then it will score you. Kind of like some games that used to be out there.

Rich

Posted: 9/22/2014 2:09:24 AM
FredM

From: Eastleigh, Hampshire, U.K. ................................... Fred Mundell. ................................... Electronics Engineer. (Primarily Analogue) .. CV Synths 1974-1980 .. Theremin developer 2007 to present .. soon to be Developing / Trading as WaveCrafter.com . ...................................

Joined: 12/7/2007

Rich,

Imagine a little walkman like unit you can enter as scale into - wide choice to make life interesting - and a key signature.

Plug in some headphones, and sing into it - every time you hit a note on the selected scale, that note gets played (mixed with your voice- you can adjust input/'ping' mix) through the cans .. Perhaps even a selection of the instrument that plays - piano, guitar, xylophone, whatever..

What could be more fun than that? ;-) ...

Use it with your voice, plug a theremin in, mic up a trombone or slide guitar or signal generator ;-)

Man - I want to stop what im doing and get a PSoC 5 configured for this! - The more I think about it, the more I like the idea!

I think Gordon has come up with a winner here - not only for pitch training, but certainly I cannot thinkof anything better suited to this function!

Make the 'ping' volume dependent on the input signal amplitude, and one overcomes the 'running note' issues when using voice - you could actually use it musically to have the voice auto-tracked and produce a single 'ping' on a 'hit' .... Oh hell, im doing it again- soon it will have 20 knobs or a deeply nested menu system ;-)..

Fred.

ps - I do understand your enthusiasm for the theremin - It does get one to the state where one thinks its the most astounding musical thing ever created, particularly for the first couple of years ;-) ....... I am now, however, something of an apostate - I dont think its a good 'starter' instrument, I think that its an instrument that only really gives back worthy stuff to those who already have reasonable pitch recognition (I am talking here about those who want to play 'tunes').

You are musically trained and experienced - and I found this when introducing the theremin for the first time to hundreds of people - those with experience of playing (particularly violin and Cello) were the ones who took to it easiest..Oh, a skilled vocalist like Amey doesnt need to have mastered any other instrument - her voice is her instrument and the theremin compliments this - the theremin wasnt the first instrument she mastered!

You may be right, I may be completely wrong - but I think the theremin is way too environmentally sensitive to be of much use in teaching pitch recognition or control.

Posted: 9/22/2014 2:16:26 AM
rkram53

From: Northern NJ, USA

Joined: 7/29/2014

To paraphrase that famous movie line: "If you build it, we will come".

I'll be your first customer. 

And if it could recognize solfege syllables (Do/Di, Re/Ri, Mi ,Fa, etc) while singing to verify the student sang the right note on the right solfege syllable - that would be a killer. Though it would have to support an option for fixed Do (Do is always C) and movable Do (Do is the tonic of whatever key you are in, and then Do can move within a piece). Maybe that's a bit too much, but something like this (solfege recognition) will be around soon, if it is not already.

Rich

Posted: 9/22/2014 2:47:05 AM
FredM

From: Eastleigh, Hampshire, U.K. ................................... Fred Mundell. ................................... Electronics Engineer. (Primarily Analogue) .. CV Synths 1974-1980 .. Theremin developer 2007 to present .. soon to be Developing / Trading as WaveCrafter.com . ...................................

Joined: 12/7/2007

"And if it could recognize solfege syllables (do, re, me ,fa, etc) while singing to verify the student sang the right note on the right solfege syllable - that would be a killer." - Rich

LOL ;-)

Rich, I am an analogue engineer - I have trouble even implementing a fairly simple formant filter in DSP.. I think I can manage the pitch detection and cross referencing this to a scale LUT, and triggering a sample at the pitch.. that's all fairly basic, could be done even if written in C without any use of the filter blocks or whatever... Could even be done on a PC, probably just using some graphical synthesis toolkit, for evaluation.

But recognition of phonemes is WAY beyond my skills - I am sure though that it could be done on a small unit using probably a DSP, by someone competent.. Hell, there's talk-type Apps available for Android tablets..

And, in fact, I would be highly surprised if one actually needs to build any hardware - A small tablet / smart phone could probably do the whole job, thinking about it..

So no - I wont divert my activities or use a PSoC5 - Its a job for a developer of Apps for Android or Apple or whatever.. There really isnt any sense in doing this job any other way, me thinks..

Fred.

Oh, BTW - I have expended everything I can think of  about this matter in the last few posts - its really outside of my comfort zone or competency... I love Gordon's idea, think its could be a great product, now think its an idea ideal for implementation as an app on some existing platform/ tablet, and think I have no more to say that could be even slightly useful!

;-)

Posted: 9/22/2014 2:49:47 AM
rkram53

From: Northern NJ, USA

Joined: 7/29/2014

You are correct. It's a perfect phone app. That would be what kids would gravitate to anyway.

Rich

Posted: 9/22/2014 3:39:01 AM
RS Theremin

From: 60 mi. N of San Diego CA

Joined: 2/15/2005

I loved that movie which the theme was about a son not making the connection with his own father in this life that he wished he had, if you.... he will come.

I have a board around here I made to ping/indicate the notes. The theremin signal can be really clean and easily measured in frequency. I use the 555 method again but set it up as a missing pulse width detector for as many musical notes that were important for me to detect. No latency because it can trigger on one cycle of the audio wave form. Each 555 is set to its own frequency. My focus was note C2 & C3 It worked but not as crisp as expected, needed more research so in the drawer it went. It was more an excuse not to work on my authentic sound.

Christopher

Edit: Home Page has the most popular tube/valve keppinger theremin build by Philip being played.

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