[URGENT] need a help with my theremin build

Posted: 10/13/2014 2:57:20 PM
pauliudean

Joined: 10/13/2014

Here is a photo of my mildly functional theremin circuit, built from a circuit i found on this website.

The voltage divider part of the circuit was playing up on me (+12V, 0V, -12V) so i switched that section for 2 power supplies, and now achieve the correct voltages.

Basically, when i switch on the power supplies, i get a constant beep output (very faint :'( ), and the frequency output only varies slightly if my hand is seriously close/touching the antenna.

Any pointers as to what i can do to amplify the output more without getting bigger speakers - i started with a small 8 Ohm speaker - nothing came out, switched to desktop speakers that are powered through USB (improvised wire stripping/ reconnecting) these speakers when switched to full volume do let out sound, but it is still faint. 

And also how should i go about increasing the variation in frequency and the sensitivity of the antenna?

 

Absolutely any help would be greatly appreciated :)

Thanks, Paulcircuitschematic

Posted: 10/13/2014 4:38:49 PM
RS Theremin

From: 60 mi. N of San Diego CA

Joined: 2/15/2005

Theremins are a wonderful learning experience. They teach you what does not work when you finally do a hands on construction in reality. Artistically your layout is beautiful. The problem I see, and I may be wrong, is every one of the wires over 1" are acting like mini pitch antennas or unwanted capacitive coupling so odds are your setup is generating all kinds of sporadic HF oscillations around the boards. I would have built this compactly on a vector or pc board.

The designer of this circuit may chime in so hang in there.

Edit: I always say get a sound sample of any theremin you want to buy or build. If none are available then the designer becomes suspect, why would they not want you to hear it respond? Who designed this one?

Christopher

Posted: 10/13/2014 9:44:37 PM
Thierry

From: Colmar, France

Joined: 12/31/2007

As most theremins, this circuit has a line level output which must be connected to an external amplifier in order to drive a speaker. Minimal knowledge in electronics is only needed to see and understand this from the schematic. Out of that, if you get a slight pitch variation by approaching the antenna, that means that the circuit basically works, but it is most probably bad designed. RC-oscillators, be it in form of Wien-Bridges as in this circuit, be it in form of relaxation oscillators with NAND gates in other simple and cheap designs, give almost never satisfying results in terms of pitch range, field size and linear tone spacing. This circuit seems to be good for first experiments, but it is IMNSHO not a musically playable theremin circuit.

It is extremely important to build RF circuits with very short interconnections between the components to avoid capacitive coupling an losses. You could perhaps try to improve the pitch response by building the whole circuit on one breadboard instead of three. But these breadboards with their internal parallel 5-point interconnections are still not well suited for such sensitive RF circuits like theremins. A printed circuit board with RF optimized routing is still the best.

But as Christopher said above: Never build a theremin circuit which you haven't heard and seen played by a renowned thereminist before! You could have build an approved and playable pitch-only theremin with a pitch range of about 3 octaves using a simpler and cheaper circuit with simpler power supply (a 9V block battery is sufficient) and much less failing risk: http://www.thereminworld.com/Forums/T/29231/my-new-year-gift-to-tw-a-new-theremin-circuit 

Posted: 10/15/2014 5:18:38 AM
FredM

From: Eastleigh, Hampshire, U.K. ................................... Fred Mundell. ................................... Electronics Engineer. (Primarily Analogue) .. CV Synths 1974-1980 .. Theremin developer 2007 to present .. soon to be Developing / Trading as WaveCrafter.com . ...................................

Joined: 12/7/2007

WOW!

Its such a shame.. So much effort and care goes into building these crap circuits trawled from some obscure web sites!

I dont understand it.. I dont understand why people put "projects" like this on the web without giving adequate warnings about their limitations and potential problems if strict construction rules arent followed..

And I dont understand why people build such things without fully checking that other people have has satisfactory results..

Sorry Paul - You are certainly not the first, and you wont be the last person who has "wasted" their time on rubbish like this - rip it up, put it down to experience, find a circuit you can understand and looks like it will do what you want, then come here and check that it will BEFORE you buy or build anything - Or build Thierry's circuit  or a kit like the Jaycar theremin.

Theremins need inductors - and the irrational fear of inductors probably leads to more wasted time by potential builders than anything else!

- and if you really must avoid inductors, theres absolutely no point IMO in going for a complex RC oscillator - may as well just use a couple of CMOS 555 timers or logic gates with a single rail supply, the results will be no more or less musical or playable, but the circuit will be a lot simpler!

Fred.

Posted: 10/15/2014 8:12:45 AM
Thierry

From: Colmar, France

Joined: 12/31/2007

FredM wrote "Theremins need inductors - and the irrational fear of inductors probably leads to more wasted time by potential builders than anything else!"

That's why I decided to use only these simple, cheap, and uncritical 1mH fixed inductors in my circuit. The parallel capacitance in the remaining circuit is so high that the SRF doesn't play an important role and the oscillators themselves are not demanding a high Q factor. You might theoretically put an 100Ohm resistor in series with the inductor and it would work, though.

Posted: 10/15/2014 8:55:04 AM
pauliudean

Joined: 10/13/2014

Thank you all for such quick replies, I really appreciate it! 

Okay, so I will scrap my protoboard circuit, and go with your version, Thierry. I've never used it, but I've ordered some matrix board and all the components that are on your design, so it will be a great learning experience, hopefully I will do it right, but I've got some solder wick if I make mistakes (its my first time), and I'll post my results either on here or on your thread :)

If I have any trouble with the build, I'll post on here, and if you have time, could you give me advice?

By the way, do you have any video of your design functioning? Just so I know what to expect when I've finished and so I could compare the results with yours.

Thank you again, you guys are awesome! :D

Paul

Posted: 10/15/2014 9:15:41 AM
pauliudean

Joined: 10/13/2014

Oh yeah, is there a specific antenna you'd recommend or is any antenna okay, I have an antenna that extends to ~40cm, is that alright?

Posted: 10/15/2014 10:23:32 AM
Thierry

From: Colmar, France

Joined: 12/31/2007

A 40cm long and (at the base) 6mm thick telescopic antenna will be fine. This allows coarse tuning with the variable capacitor on the circuit board and fine tuning by varying the antenna length by +/- 2mm on the thinnest top segment.

Unfortunately, I couldn't find a public video with this circuit musically played. But Coralie Ehinger, the organizer of the Swiss "Node Festival" integrated one into a brochure display stand, together with a small 0.5W amplifier and a speaker. Here is the result:

Posted: 10/15/2014 12:46:50 PM
dewster

From: Northern NJ, USA

Joined: 2/17/2012

"Okay, so I will scrap my protoboard circuit, and go with your version, Thierry. I've never used it, but I've ordered some matrix board and all the components that are on your design, so it will be a great learning experience, hopefully I will do it right, but I've got some solder wick if I make mistakes (its my first time), and I'll post my results either on here or on your thread :)"  - pauliudean

That schematic looks rather dubious, but I think you can continue to use a protoboard for your Theremin circuit prototyping.  If you are careful with layout it will still probably influence things somewhat, but is isn't necessarily a death sentence at these frequencies, and protoboards are enormously convenient.  They can have high capacitance between adjacent rows, and also capacitance to whatever they are sitting on or mounted on.  The one I use for oscillators is double-stick taped to a piece of plexiglas, but wood or almost anything else non-conductive would do, as would simple legs to give it a bit of height.

Your wiring looks clean but I would aim for being less "neat" and more direct point-to-point with wires utilizing the third dimension (up in the air) to avoid packing them too closely together or running them near the protoboard surface.  Of it course it depends on what a particular wire is doing, most are non-critical and can be placed / routed however you feel.  Getting too neat is IMO generally a waste of time as you're trying stuff out not making a finished product.  Don't forget to decouple here and there with capacitors from supply to ground and small value series resistors feeding them.  Really strong undesired interaction between unrelated circuitry might need a choke.

Active devices that have significant delay at the operating frequency should be avoided as they will almost certainly be a major cause of thermal drift, and the delay can throw things off of the natural resonance point giving you a smaller voltage swing at the antenna.  Op amps and the like aren't well suited to >300kHz operation as oscillators.  You want to employ one or two transistors here, or fast CMOS digital logic (in either analog or digital mode).

Series LC tank oscillators tend to be sensitive to inductor self-capacitance, but I currently have one running at 2.5MHz on a protoboard (which is 5 to 10 times higher frequency than what you normally find in a Theremin).  One of the tricks is to connect the antenna end of the inductor directly to the antenna in the air with a clip rather than employing protoboard connectivity for this.  Parallel tank oscillators like Thierry's or livio's are more forgiving in this regard.

Posted: 10/17/2014 12:08:56 AM
FredM

From: Eastleigh, Hampshire, U.K. ................................... Fred Mundell. ................................... Electronics Engineer. (Primarily Analogue) .. CV Synths 1974-1980 .. Theremin developer 2007 to present .. soon to be Developing / Trading as WaveCrafter.com . ...................................

Joined: 12/7/2007

" hopefully I will do it right, but I've got some solder wick if I make mistakes (its my first time)," - Paul

:-) ... I still remember my first time, I was about 8. Yeah, nothing the beat the experience - the solder fumes, the messy blob dangling on the tip..

Get some dummy practice in first - Vital is to "wet" the tip of your iron so that the solder doesn't just heat up and drop off - you need to have a good wet contact so the tip can transfer the heat to the component being soldered - and get good lead solder, not this crap RoHS stuff! -

This video should help you to get it right:

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