Goals for a TW Theremin

Hi Folks,
I appreciate and understand the efforts to divert this "conversation" away from the unpleasant argument regarding the "definition" of the "TW Theremin"..

However..

This thread is titled "Goals for a TW Theremin" - I believe it was initiated as a framework by which the Open Source structure for the TW Theremin could be started, and eventually defined.

With any Open Source project, this is a FUNDAMENTAL requirement. If one looks at other Open Source projects (Arduino for example) the thing (and ONLY thing) which has made them popular and successful, has been the fact that an approved core is defined and adhered to by all participants and manufacturers, and that all development is completely OPEN SOURCE.

With Arduino, for example, one can buy any interface module ("shield") and rely on the fact that this will interface with any other appropriate Arduino module - If developers were free to produce incompatible products and call these "Arduino" then the project would not have got anywhere - no one with any knowledge of this fatal flaw would buy "Arduino" boards or "shields", and those who did not know better and bought these would find them incompatible with other "Arduino" products and there would be an almighty mess, with products being returned and reputations being damaged.

In order for an Open Source project to be successful, there must be a central "governing" entity which maintains the specification and sets the standards, and everyone developing for the project must comply with the rulings from such a governing entity - In truth, I do not think the "governing entity" would need to interfere much - It is in the interest of ALL HONEST DEVELOPERS to comply with the specifications - It is only DISHONEST individuals or companies who would steal a brand so as to fraudulently exploit its value.

In terms of the TW Theremin project, this means that everyone developing "TW Theremins" must do so under control supervision and with authorization from Theremin World - If it is not agreed that this will be ENFORCED when required, then IMO the TW Theremin is dead in the water before its first realization has even appeared.

And this is why I am making such a "song and dance" over the "This may be re-introduced as the $125 TW Theremin" - Because this sets a precedent which, unless nipped immediately, completely undermines the whole basis for any TW Theremin project.

The utter BS stated by Chris " I am deliberately pushing your buttons because this thread went dormant, but you in turn kick people in the teeth. " just demonstrates the dangers - and the "Fred I need you to succeed, so don’t use my honesty as your excuse" may have some truth in it - If the TW Theremin does not "take off" then the "TW Theremin" "brand" will not be nearly as valuable, and con men will not be able to milk this value.

As for "if you have been looking for one, to storm out of here and quit. Stop looking at the door! " I have not been looking for any "door" (although I must admit, if I saw a door I would be tempted to try to kick a certain person out of it! ;-)..

I will continue to publish my circuits and ideas here at TW, and will publish the theremin (based on the TW Clone circuits I published before) which is on my bench in its final stages at the moment..
I had imagined that the circuits of this theremin may be a contribution towards a possible TW Theremin, but at this time, due to the "ambiguity" over abuse of the TW Theremin "name" and the fact that no action has been taken to resolve this, IMO the TW THEREMIN PROJECT IS DEAD! And nothing I contribute from now may be used towards a "TW Theremin".

Furthermore, the "because this thread went dormant" is now irrelevant - There is no point in wasting time defining "Goals" or setting "Specifications" until TW accepts that a Open Source project of this kind requires management and control, including the willingness to do the dirty work of dealing with those who use the "TW Theremin" name without authorization.

Nothing I contribute from now is for use in any "TW theremin", and from now on I personally retain the copyright to anything I publish. If a "TW Theremin" project goes ahead without complete resolution of the above matters, I am NO part of it.

Fred.

Update:

RS has modified his web page, changing the words "This may be re-introduced as the $125 TW Theremin" to "This is NOT the $125 Theremin World Theremin"

I am now even more disgusted with his behaviour than I was before - I never "dreamed" this would be possible!

The replacement text is just insulting to Theremin World, and utterly misleading and dishonest - There is no "Theremin World Theremin" let alone a "$125 Theremin World Theremin"

There was a TW Theremin Project - But note - He does not say "This is NOT the $125 TW Theremin" - He leaves the door open for him to exploit what he believes would justify calling his theremin a "TW Theremin" by merit of his "claim" to "Thereminist Warriors".

Any person with ANY decency, who had no intention of FRAUDULENTLY using Theremin World or TW, would simply state that they would not use either "Theremin World" or "TW" or "TW Theremin" without concent from Theremin World.

If I was a moderator or member of TW staff I would vote for immediate termination of Christophers membership, and would advise Christopher that unless all fraudulent reference to Theremin World or TW was removed from his site, legal action will be initiated.

But I am not in the position to do anything, except take a break, work on my theremin, and come back after Xmas with the hope that this matter has been sorted.

Happy Xmas everyone.. You too, Christopher - I hope you come to your senses! I have certainly seen a better side to you than what you are displaying at the moment!

Fred.

Fred I wish you a Merry Christmas also.

If it helps you to rest easy there is no theremin on my webpages, no schematics and no parts list. Currently there is only the illusion.

You told me once I wore blinkers....really?

Christopher

Why don't we try to make peace? :(

I am certain that Jason / John are reading these threads (i hope so) and if there was something going on that they didn't agree with, they would have taken action(s) to rectify it...

I am not taking sides, I would just like posts with less "picante" taste.

"I am certain that Jason / John are reading these threads (i hope so) and if there was something going on that they didn't agree with, they would have taken action(s) to rectify it..." - Amey

Amey, I wish they would! Whatever their "verdict".

My perspective is primarily with regard to project managment - It takes a lot of work to structure a collaborative project, work I have been doing in the background with intent to present.

All this work is completely pointless unless the issues I have detailed are resolved.. If these issues are not resolved, then the TW Theremin becomes a hobby free-for-all, and cannot go anywhere, and has the potential to severely damage TW's reputation.

I have highlighted this now, and it us up to TW Staff to do what they want.

I am now logging off till the new year - have had enough of TW for a while ;-) you just caught me before I closed the door.. And no, I wont even be reading the posts here - Levnet will keep me going ;-)

Fred.

 Perhaps a Levnet Theremin project... Or a "Lev Theremin" project hosted on Element 14..

I'll miss you! I wish you a great time off. Hope you come back with enthousiasm and a happy heart.

Be well.

"Happy Xmas everyone"  <= OMG, War on Christmas!  Come see the violence inherent in the system!  Help, help, I'm being repressed! 

But if you close the door you won't be able to read about the latest high tech blind alley / dead end my prototype is currently languishing in! ;-)

Happy Holidays Fred (and RS & Amethyste)!  Hope you get over your cold quickly!

To be honest, I'd love an open source theremin designed by the tech-savvy people on Theremin World. A theremin that we could use, that had the features most commonly demanded by thereminists, and a good RCA-like sound. And without having to assemble it or know electronics to use it, I hope :)

And also to be honest, I couldn't care less about the name. Or about whether there are other theremins out there with a similar name or not.

For those of us who visit TW, it will be clear which is the theremin designed here and which isn't. For the people who don't visit TW, the TW name will mean nothing anyway. And in any case, the theremins will finally be judged by their own merits. There are theremins in some countries that are blatant Etherwave Standard clones, but people that have interest in theremins will either buy from Moog, or make sure that the clones really work well before buying them.

Mind you, with this I don't mean to say that it isn't fine to register a name and legally enforce that. People who create something have the right to be recognized for it, and should have exclusive rights to the name. But to give this issue so much importance to actually stop working? I don't know, in my scale the importance of "having a good theremin created by the community" is 1000/10, while the importance of "preventing other people from using the same/similar name" (especially before any of the projects is complete) is 5/10 at most.

I hope this doesn't offend anyone, it's just my opinion. Of course, I'm not contributing anything at all to this project (since I don't have the knowledge), so you can attach any value to my opinion, including zero, or negative :) But I think you might be interested in the opinions of a future user of the product who wants to have it and sees that fights about the name are decreasing the probability of actually getting it.

@ AIKhwarizmi

Input from theremin players like you, Amethyste and Peter is every bit as important as the technical design. Without it, we keepers of the geek flame can't know if our designs work in the real world.

As for production, those of us that can drive a soldering iron will have to build them for our players. I can see all sorts of problems from this approach.

Someone needs to pay for the boards and parts, build the cabinet, put the whole thing together, and test it before sending it off.

In a perfect world, this could be done with volunteers, but in the real world, I don't think it's practical, time and money being the biggest factors.

Charlie has built an excellent working model, but a production ready design is still in the future. Even if he were to build some of his prototypes for players, I believe it would be unfair to expect him to do it without compensation.

On a personal note, I'm currently in a crunch with time and finances and I'm unable to to provide much beyond moral support. This grieves me greatly, and I'm suffering soldering iron withdrawal symptoms.

I can see no solution. I hope to hear from business savvy members like Jason.

I thought the TW Theremin was to be a schematic & parts list of a proven, bullet proof design that we could point potential builders to?