Emotional while listening...

I came across this article today " Music of survival in Mandela's prison " and felt it was relevant to the topic "Emotion while listening":

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2013/11/music-survival-mandela-prison-2013114133159871754.html

There are some tracks to listen to as well - "Shosholoza" brought tears to my eyes - I have heard it many times sung by Africans doing hard labour, but never knew it was "Shosholoza" - I did not recognise the other songs.

(sorry - trying to edit this I got a double posting, so deleted my last post..)

"It's definitely inspiring to play something so very human-sounding, but capable of vocals which I'd never be able to do in real life." - Explorer

I am interested - do you think it is easier to convey emotion with 'human sounding' instruments? I am clear that, for me, people singing conveys emotional 'depth' I cannot get from any other musical source...

But I am not absolutely sure that I can get this from synthesised human formants.. Oh, I think that synthesised vocal qualities affect me, but even at their best (or most 'emotive') they dont come close to what is stirred in me when I hear humans sing.. Nothing gets to me like the sound of African songs like  N'Kosi Sikeleli - But I think perhaps some of that is related perhaps more to my memories and background than anything else..

Fred.

Do I think that raw emotion is easier to convey with human-sounding instruments?

I think that great music can convey raw emotion, definitely. Does that music rely on timbres we can interpret as plaintive, or other human emotions, before it can move us? I don't know.

However... if we were to look at which instruments (including the voice) have been chosen over what we know as history, and used to convey deep emotion in music over that time, maybe you'll find your answer. I'm only worried about what appeals to me, so I don't need to worry about whether you find my usage or pursuits acceptable.

Of course, if someone else feels strongly enough about my gear choices to buy me what they feel I should be using. I accept PayPal donations. *laugh*

For what it's worth, since posting earlier today, I took my tiny rig (battery powered, Manfrotto ultracompact mic stand, fits in an small satchel) to the local large used musical instrument store to try out some flat response amps, and a surprising amount of both the working musicians, and those who were just buying stuff for their kids or checking it out, came into the room to see who was singing. This is more than normally come to see what makes the sound most of us know as a theremin. For them, it wasn't about some artificial machine, but about a voice.

And that's why I"m grateful I only have to please some people, not all the people. It was enough for them.

I listened to "SHOSHOLOZA" and felt nothing at all. 

It is a fine example of a particular type of African choral singing but I think we have to make a distinction between being emotionally touched by music itself, and being touched by a whole host of other things that we are associating with that music in our own minds: the criminal injustice of the South African apartheid regime, Nelson Mandela's heroic struggle and almost mythical final triumph, etc. 

As Fred pointed out, much of his reaction to the African music has to do with his own memories and background.

For most people, I do think the most intense emotional reactions are reserved for vocal music. Mass audiences have never reacted to instrumental musicians the way they have reacted to the likes of Frank Sinatra, the Beatles, or Justin Bieber. Only a vocalist could elicit this type of response.  Those who weep over the second movement of Ravel's Piano Concerto in G Major are relatively rare compared with the millions who faint over "The Bieb".

Many of the instruments that seem to provoke the strongest emotional responses from listeners, are those that are capable of producing microtones the way the human voice does (violin, cello, sax, duduk & theremin...among others). 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDRCk5lnkQc

"I listened to "SHOSHOLOZA" and felt nothing at all" - Coalport

This sort of surprises me - but (contradictorily) I am not surprised.. I guess I knew that much of the effect on me was determined by my causal / emotional matrix, that the emotions I feel when listening to stuff "related" to me or my past would be much stronger that what was felt by others without that shared context.. My surprise comes from the word "nothing".

I had thought (hoped?) that there was a hidden "emotional language" embedded in vocal formants which had some "universality" - That some "essence" was conveyed by songs "from the heart" which, to some degree at least, "moved" the listener, even if the listener never had a clue about what was being sung.

But the above is probably my delusional wishful thinking - it has no scientific basis that I know of.. And (for me) its probably a delusion which leads to other daft delusions / illusions - the idea that I can differentiate between a song "sincerely" "sung from the heart" versus a song sung where the singer has no real interest or emotional "connection" to what they are singing. I have a mild touch of (some undefined) Autistic Spectrum "condition" - Perhaps this a reason I am inclined to "hear" or "fabricate" stuff which probably isnt there.

"However... if we were to look at which instruments (including the voice) have been chosen over what we know as history, and used to convey deep emotion in music over that time, maybe you'll find your answer. I'm only worried about what appeals to me, so I don't need to worry about whether you find my usage or pursuits acceptable." - Explorer

Please forgive me if anything I said came over as critical of your "persuits" - This certainly was not my intention at all! - I have also spent loads of time chasing and experimenting with vocal formants and trying to get human emotional sounds from instruments.. I fully appreciate your "I'm only worried about what appeals to me, so I don't need to worry about whether you find my usage or pursuits acceptable." as this applies to my personal musical ventures - But I also have a perspective as a developer / potential manufacturer, where "what appeals to me" is of no importance compared to what appeals to potential customers.

My questions are primarily to get the perspective of others on this deep subject - to stir the pot, so to speak.. Sometimes perhaps I stir too vigorously! - I also have a 'slant' of enquiring for the purpose of directing my developments.. If nobody else feels the same way about a particular sound or whatever, I may still play with it for my own enjoyment but will be less likely to spend time 'honing' it to make it suitable for production.. Watching the use of the TM has been real interesting - First the enthusiasm and feeling that it was exactly what the theremin "needed", then the quite rapid waning of interest... Oh, there are a few players who have done a few pieces where it was great - but thats it, it seems.

I wish to appologise to everyone at TW for the muddled content of many of my posts - I am all over the place, and dont have any clear sense of "identity" regarding "who" or "what" I am - The only area I feel fully "together" on is analogue design - but other than that, I drift between being a developer with plans to bring products to market, or a researcher looking at academic matters, and collecting data for some thesis or book, or an amateur philosopher, or whatever - I am compulsively curious but also unwilling / unable to accept any "answers" I find - subjecting these to ever more inane "testing"..

I suspect that I am a real bore!  LOL  ;-)

Fred.

Ran across Caitlin Canty a few days ago and suddenly own all 4 of her CDs!  If you like quiet, minor key female folk, check out her album "Golden Hour":

https://caitlincanty.bandcamp.com/music

If I had to pick one standout song on it would be "Southern Man".  Though "Every Day" has a haunting, somehow retro, instantly familiar sound.

Haven't given her two earlier albums "Neon Streets" and "Neon" enough listening time, though they seem somewhat underproduced.  And her latest "Reckless Skyline" is somewhat overproduced IMO.  "Golden Hour" is the sweet spot.

Extra plug: Deb Talan's 3 CDs previous to the Weepies are quite something, I prefer her as a solo act.

Extra extra plug: If you like the band "Primitive Radio Gods" the album "White Hot Peach" is good.  Later stuff is shoegazing and I unfortunately can't get into it.  But their previous four albums as "I-Rails" are something you should definitely seek out.  The albums only exist on tape unfortunately, so the quality isn't the best.

I'm not a native speaker of English and neither intimately familiar with comtemporary poetry, so subtleties of english song lyrics might often elude me.

When it comes to emotional singing, I'm a lot more into stuff like this, and my 5 lessons italian don't help me understand it all, so it's mostly about music and voice modulation I guess (well sometimes I do read lyrics translations)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2v7Kre6-yE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0Or8GO9RJk&t=3m17s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKNj8uURoLY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-Gsj70wPrg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cD21oQiMR8

When in college during the late 90's there was a Plan 9 store nearby that had a fair number of reasonably priced used CDs, along with a couple of CD players & headphones that you could freely sample them on.  Probably 1/3 or more of my CD collection is from this store and directly due to its awesome practices.  There's nothing like holding a $5 CD in your hand and listening to it on a whim.  After college, and post move to NJ, there was a store rather like it in Denville, but that's long gone now unfortunately.  I didn't leave the strip mall, it left me.

Anyway, while ripping my CD collection (to listen to on my PC, using the nice program "Exact Audio Copy") I happened upon Merrie Amsterburg's 1996 "Season of Rain".  I don't believe I've played it more than once or twice since I bought it, but I now see that the CD is pretty stunning.  Merrie's voice is high and rather baby-doll sounding, with an almost British delivery, which probably initially deflected me.  Kind of a cross between a languid Kate Bush (who I can't get into at all) and Sean Colvin (who I absolute love).  Her songwriting is top notch, with intimate intelligent lyrics and interesting melodies.  But her guitar work - just incredible!  Fantastic chording and driving rhythms, lots of tonal and structural variation, I'm in awe.  I can hear Sean Colvin style percussive work (but done better) as well as Chris Whitley-ish chording, and she seems to be quite aware of bass notes ala Kelly Joe Phelps.  It's a very guitar & vocal driven CD.

Merrie has released an EP and 3 CDs, the last in 2006.  *Sigh*

Here she is performing "Otherworld":

I hesitate to post live performances as one's first exposure to a particular artist, but this one's pretty high quality.

From (link): "What I say is that my music is pop music that I wish was more popular."  "Amsterburg happens to be a working musician who’s working another job as well. She does bookkeeping, which keeps her so busy that she can’t focus exclusively on music. She gets up before that job starts, sometimes as early as 6 in the morning, to write and work on songs. “To fool around,” as she calls it."  Christ.  These people are national creative treasures, I wish we'd treat them that way.  

Something happened to me last week, saw this topic, not sure if it counts, thought I'd share.

I was watching https://youtu.be/sDoV3sMgDhE due to the mention of it being the Hoffman Theremin.

About halfway through the vid, I don't know if was a combo of the tune (which I've never heard before) & my thoughts (that's THE Theremin on The Day The Earth Stood Still & Captain Beefheart's Safe As Milk!!) but I started crying, profusely!!

It took about 10 minutes to get myself together.

The power of the Theremin.

I'm still new to the scene. Never thought I'd get like that.

Hi shad,

From the musical point of view, what someone is - or is NOT - going to respond to emotionally is deeply personal and has to do with the coming together of several factors. In the case of this particular performance of O MIO BABBINO CARO, about 25% of it has to do with the highly operatic - dare I say DRAMATIC - way I have of playing the theremin, and the other 75% is the genius of the Italian composer Giacomo Puccini (IMNSHFO). Not everyone responds to the operatic style, but those who do are almost fanatical about it.

Yes, the RCA I am playing in the video is the same instrument that belonged to Samuel Hoffman, and it is the one he used on the soundtrack of THE DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL. It has never been altered or restored, and the difference in the sound between then and now is strictly attributable to the way I play it, compared to the way Hoffman played it.

The sound is the same but the notes are shaped differently.😮