Moog Theremini!

Thats wrong!

The baguette should be inside the toaster!

;-)

Really neat photo editing there,  Gordon! ;-) .. I much prefer the look of that to the real one..

From the article linked by Gordon (above):

"The pitch frequency is measured extremely precisely from the heterodyned output of the pitch and fixed frequency oscillators." - (Cyril Lance - Moog engineer).

The implication, if taking those words completely literally (particularly the word "pitch") is that there is a heterodyning AUDIO engine within the theremini, and that this is (wastefully IMO) not used for anything other than to derive data for the MCU.

If this is literally true, then latency would be a direct function of pitch, and even if measurements were taken every 1/2 cycle (the shortest time in which one can derive the pitch unless using my PLL multiplication scheme), for A 110Hz one would be adding 4.5ms latency to whatever other latencies exist, and a whopping 18ms when playing lowest A (27.5Hz)

I think it more likely that the front end is tuned so that the difference frequency at a "virtual" "null point" is not 0Hz, but probably 100Hz or above - that measurement is taken from this raised frequency, and that there is no audio heterodyned "pitch" which relates to the digital engines output pitch in any musical way - and this is why the heterodyne produced audio is not, and cannot be used.

The other details are interesting and look quite encouraging -

Fred.

Thats wrong!

The baguette should be inside the toaster!

;-)      -  Fred

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha...

On a kind of sensible note: Thomas G needs to get hold of this Theremini so he can give it a test drive like he has done with several other theremins. If he does it at least there will be some kind of consistency from theremin to theremin.

Just a thought.

R

On Dewsters "Digital Theremin" thread, Dewster wrote:

"Fred, like you I'm thinking the Theremini will likely kill much of demand for low to mid priced Theremins (not that there was exactly tons of demand to begin with).  I imagine the EW will disappear shortly as well.  I'm not sure who will want to build anything with that nifty seeming $300 item looming in the wings.  The Theremin needed to be updated so badly that it seems every experimenter under the sun was jumping into the void, now it seems much of the pressure is off."

I do remember well something quite similar happening with synthesisers - Back in the late '70s and early '80s, there were lots of small synth manufacturers, and lots of serious hobby magazines publishing designs and kits for synthesisers - some quite reputable companies of the time (Maplin, Powertran to name 2) selling kits for mono and poly analogue synths at affordable prices..

Then cheap digital poly synths appeared from Japan, and in a few years the entire cottage industry was almost wiped out .. it took several decades before demand for analogue brought that industry back to life... In the "void" years, there was enough old analogue selling on the 2nd hand market (at absurdly low price in the early years when everyone was trying to flog their "old" analogue off to buy digital) to feed the greatly reduced demand, and the reduced demand made it uneconomic to enter the market with anything new.. Like most young engineers at the time, I was forced to leave synths and work in electronic sectors which paid wages!

I spoke before about the theremini in ways which caused one person here to declare on Levnet that I was predicting "Theremageddon" - Thanks PP ;-)

I do think though that regardless of how "good" or "bad" the theremini turns out to be, it will usher in an era of even greater austerity for theremin developers - or will if we dont get together and create attractive alternatives to the theremini.. I dont see the theremini as something taking "the pressure off" - I see it as something that is cranking the pressure way up..  As I suggest on the digital theremin thread, I think the "cottage industry" needs to club together if it wants to survive... The theremini is IMO only likely to be the first wave - When sales of the theremini become substantial, we will get Chinese and Japanese manufacturers coming to the party with mass produced mass market plastic theremin toys - I know manufactures in China who are looking closely at the musical toy market - I have been in negotiation with one re a musical toy I have designed.. (not a theremin I hasten to add ;-) - They are smart people technically, and have real business sence and access to funds - All they have lacked is an innovative flair - and they are catching up on this fast, and understanding what drives demand.. They WILL see this market.

I personally have no worry, and I dont think the theremini will have any impact on my "prospects" (for what they are worth, the only possible big impact relates to my idea about getting crowd funding via kickstarter - I will probably drop the theremin if I do this and focus on my other instruments) - But I feel real sorry for some of the remaining small manufacturers (well, theres really only one AFAICS directly in the path of this tsunami, who is producing theremins in any sort of volume).

Fred.

Well, it could be the end of the theremin world as we know it, or it could be the dawn of a new age of theremin hybrids, which could be a blessing for boutique manufacturers - these things are not complicated (if you know what you're doing) - and Moog just gave the whole idea the seal of approval in the form of the theremini.

So hook up an open.theremin style gestural interface to whatever you can imagine - direct link to a built in SFF computer or single board micro controller outputting audio or CV or MIDI or OSC or driving digital potentiometers for z-vex probe style space-control expression pedals. Pick your processor/software to fit your target price and market - hobbyist, experimental, professional, classical...

I'm a bit excited about this. OK so you're not keen on Moog's interpretation of waveform synthesis. Well how about a physical modelling theremin for luscious "would-fool-anyone-but-a-violinist" string sounds?

(Aside: does the open.theremin interfere with etherwaves? I could imagine plonking an OT near the volume loop of my etherwave and jacking into the expression pedal sockets of a couple of guitar pedals in my effects chain to give a sort-of 3D control zone.)

So glad I got my 3 theremins: A Wavefront, a Subscope V-3 and a Moog Epro.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Well, it could be the end of the theremin world as we know it, or it could be the dawn of a new age of theremin hybrids, which could be a blessing for boutique manufacturers - these things are not complicated (if you know what you're doing) - and Moog just gave the whole idea the seal of approval in the form of the theremini.

So hook up an open.theremin style gestural interface to whatever you can imagine - direct link to a built in SFF computer or single board micro controller outputting audio or CV or MIDI or OSC or driving digital potentiometers for z-vex probe style space-control expression pedals. Pick your processor/software to fit your target price and market - hobbyist, experimental, professional, classical...

(Aside: does the open.theremin interfere with etherwaves? I could imagine plonking an OT near the volume loop of my etherwave and jacking into the expression pedal sockets of a couple of guitar pedals in my effects chain to give a sort-of 3D control zone.)

GordonC wrote: "Aside: does the open.theremin interfere with etherwaves? I could imagine plonking an OT near the volume loop of my etherwave and jacking into the expression pedal sockets of a couple of guitar pedals in my effects chain to give a sort-of 3D control zone."

I'll know that this weekend. The Arduino arrived today. I'll have to flash it, put it together with Urs Gaudenz' shield, connect some antennas, and then everything should work. Theoretically, seen the oscillators' frequencies in theory, it shouldn't interfere. But in practice, theremins behave often different from theory...

Linda Lafferty from MOOG MUSIC does a little demo on the new THEREMINI showing some of the voices I don't think we've heard before. She also points out that the instrument has "a real analogue heterodyning oscillator"...but I'm not sure I know what that means anymore!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Wl3Ygfp_XA

Well, I just watched the demo from NAMM.

As I see it, there are two aspects to the theremin:

1. Gestural control
2. Expressiveness

I have always seen the gestural control as the means to achieve the unique and nuanced expressiveness that sets the theremin apart from other electronic instruments.

I think the "playing without touching it" aspect has won the day over the "expressiveness" aspect, though.  In this sense, I understand Moog Music's decision to sell a software-controlled gestural controller with an internal synth engine and USB interface.

If theremin-playing becomes safe and easy then -- for me -- it loses its attractiveness.