Thierymin pitch only theremin giving nothing but static an high pitched noises.

Posted: 9/11/2016 7:50:48 AM
Thaddeus

Joined: 8/2/2016

I plugged it all through a 9V battery and the amp is no longer shrieking. But all I'm getting is a slight bump in static when I touch the antenna. 

http://jalbum.net/en/browse/user/album/1747800

that is a link to what my setup looks like.

Posted: 9/11/2016 11:27:43 AM
dewster

From: Northern NJ, USA

Joined: 2/17/2012

"that is a link to what my setup looks like."  - Thaddeus

Breadboards with a metal plate on the back have too much capacitance for Theremin design use.  I use is a single bare breadboard strip, and I place it on top of a small plastic box to reduce capacitance.  Even better would be to not have the power rail strips going down the sides (but mine are glued on).

Try to keep the circuit confined to one breadboard strip, with short connecting wires.  Don't run sensitive connecting wires close to the breadboard (though power and ground close to the breadboard are OK).  Space out transistor leads to use every other row rather than consecutive rows.  Really sensitive connections (e.g. between the EQ coil and antenna) should avoid the breadboard altogether (clip or solder them together in the air).  Don't forget to decouple close to the device (IC, transistor, etc.) power leads with 103 or 104 caps.

Posted: 9/11/2016 11:43:35 AM
Thaddeus

Joined: 8/2/2016

I have left spaces between the legs of the transistors. Hmmm, okay, I'll try all of the above. What exactly do you mean when you speak of "decouple close to the device"?

Are all the above mentioned problems enough to stop the circuit operating completely? Or would they just degrade the quality? Because I'm having a near complete lack of function, and I've checked the circuits thoroughly and found no problems with their actual construction.

Posted: 9/11/2016 12:03:03 PM
dewster

From: Northern NJ, USA

Joined: 2/17/2012

You can look up decoupling - basically it's small capacitors (0.001uF to 0.1uF, sometimes a large and small C are used together) placed as close as possible across the power leads of active devices.  They serve as local reservoirs of power, and largely nullify the effects of power run resistance and inductance.  You want some bulk capacitance too for every group of devices (1uF to 10uF tantalum).  As an example, about a week ago I was experimenting with LC tank drive / buffering and noticed really odd looking ramped waveforms at various critical circuit nodes on the breadboard.  A single 104 (0.1uF) capacitor across the IC power pins cleaned it all up.

That metal plate under the breadboard is just asking for it.  Get yourself a single bare breadboard and support it a couple of inches above your work surface with a plastic insulator.  Don't stick power amplifiers and the like on it right off the bat, get the oscillators going and adjusted first.

Do you have access to a scope?  I don't think I'd attempt Theremin design / construction without one.

Posted: 9/11/2016 2:21:44 PM
Thaddeus

Joined: 8/2/2016

Thank you for the info. Unless you are referring to the bread board itself having a metal plate built into it (which after examining it I don't think it does) there isn't a metal plate. The surface of the table I have it on may look metalic, but it's just the paint. Would not any decoupling already be accounted for in Thierrys schematic?

Yes, I do have access to a scope.

Posted: 9/11/2016 2:23:50 PM
Thaddeus

Joined: 8/2/2016

And what would be the best way to ground it?

Posted: 9/11/2016 3:01:28 PM
oldtemecula

From: 60 Miles North of San Diego, CA

Joined: 10/1/2014

Thaddeus this method of construction works for simple audio and digital stuff but Radio Frequency circuits need proper layout on printed circuit boards so wires and parts are not interfering with each other in a capacitive sense. I have etched hundreds of my own pcb in the garage as part of my learning curve.

My latest project in the other thread is audio and in no way could it be wired up on a protoboard as seen below or it would be swamped in capacitive feedback interference. That is why I build in a pcb modular fashion so replacing any section is possible.

The bottom audio side is not critical, you probably could order the RF side PCB from Thierry.

I forbid you to go any further building a theremin on those breadboards.

Posted: 9/11/2016 3:14:37 PM
Thaddeus

Joined: 8/2/2016

Fair enough. What should I order instead?

Posted: 9/11/2016 3:19:54 PM
dewster

From: Northern NJ, USA

Joined: 2/17/2012

"Unless you are referring to the bread board itself having a metal plate built into it (which after examining it I don't think it does) there isn't a metal plate."  - Thaddeus

Oh, I'm wrong, very sorry.  I have one that is similar to yours but it has an aluminum plate on the back.  Yours looks like plastic, which should be OK, but you should still set it on something plastic to get it up off your desk, as even wooden desks can throw off Theremin circuitry:

I haven't looked at Thierry's schematic lately, but it never hurts to put a cap here and there across the power points.

There will still be a pF or two from the protoboard that can throw things off, but I think you will probably be able to get it going.  When using your scope, you might want to use a series 1pF cap on the probe so as not to perturb things too much.  You can also often just bring the probe near the oscillator without actually connecting it to anything to examine oscillation.

I haven't looked too closely at your layout, but overall it doesn't look bad.  Are the voltages OK and are both oscillators oscillating?

"And what would be the best way to ground it?"

If your scope is plugged into the wall with a 3 prong plug, and if the ground continues to the scope probe ground clip, then use that.

Posted: 9/11/2016 3:44:56 PM
Thaddeus

Joined: 8/2/2016

The scope isn't with me now, I've tested the voltage, and I am getting volts from the middle to bottom pins of the transistors. 

I'll only be able to tell you about wether or not they are oscillating in afew days time. A friend of mine has a scope.

Christopher said it won't work on bread board? Are the parasitc capacitances really high enough to stop it functioning all together?

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