DIY Etherwave Theremin inductors replacement

Posted: 8/30/2024 6:57:26 PM
fchiabudini

Joined: 8/30/2024

Hi! I'm quite new to this forum and I came across the Etherwave circuit from Moog. I would like to build this theremin for a univerity project, but I cannot longer find replacements for the variable inductors (L5, L6, L11). I'm from argentina but even in some US electronics stores those are hard to find. I am aware that the original TOKOS are discontinued and the Coilcraft Slot TENs, which I read were some good replacements, are also discontinued. Is it possible to build this theremin in 2024?? And what about using variable capacitors instead of inductors for the LC resonant circuits? Would it work?

Thanks in advance.

Posted: 9/5/2024 9:07:37 AM
Gianluca

From: Italy

Joined: 5/26/2019

Hi fchiabudini, regarding the variable inductors, I suggest you reach out directly to Coilcraft. If they still have some in stock, they might be able to send them to you.

Another issue is the linearization coils for the pitch and volume antenna, which I haven't been able to find so far. Maybe someone on the forum could provide you with more information.

Good luck!

Posted: 9/5/2024 10:13:34 AM
dewster

From: Northern NJ, USA

Joined: 2/17/2012

"And what about using variable capacitors instead of inductors for the LC resonant circuits?" - fchiabudini

There are designs that do that.  It's usually a small trimmer in parallel with a larger capacitor, or the equivalent type circuit, to make it easier to tune.  You can also put a screw in the end of the antenna to trim capacitance there.

Like Gianluca says though, the series RF chokes are pretty much gone.  It's possible to build a Theremin without them, but they help to produce higher voltage and linearize some.

Posted: 9/5/2024 10:38:39 PM
fchiabudini

Joined: 8/30/2024

"And what about using variable capacitors instead of inductors for the LC resonant circuits?" - fchiabudiniThere are designs that do that.  It's usually a small trimmer in parallel with a larger capacitor, or the equivalent type circuit, to make it easier to tune.  You can also put a screw in the end of the antenna to trim capacitance there.Like Gianluca says though, the series RF chokes are pretty much gone.  It's possible to build a Theremin without them, but they help to produce higher voltage and linearize some.

Okay, thanks for helping! Regarding the chokes for the antennas, could I use normal RF chokes with similar inductance, Q factor and resonant frequency? What did the originals have that are not replaceable?

Posted: 9/6/2024 12:08:09 PM
dewster

From: Northern NJ, USA

Joined: 2/17/2012

"Regarding the chokes for the antennas, could I use normal RF chokes with similar inductance, Q factor and resonant frequency? What did the originals have that are not replaceable?"  - fchiabudini

Perhaps, but where would you buy them?  The strong trend for all types of components these days is extreme miniaturization, which is generally a bad thing for Theremin EQ inductors.  Aggressive ferrite formulations have a lot of temperature dependence, which leads to excessive drift.  And generally the closer the leads the higher the self C.

Posted: 9/6/2024 5:27:49 PM
oldtemecula

From: 60 Miles North of San Diego, CA

Joined: 10/1/2014

The authentic theremin is simple in design using a phenomena of nature. This kicks the ass of most engineers so they go with what they know which is digital.

Part of the phenomenon is getting the pitch antenna circuit to resonate with the tank circuit for “ideal” near perfect pitch field linearity. There are various methods to achieve this.

My days of theremin design are over but my research is still online, a lot unseen.
https://www.oldtemecula.com/theremin2020/

All components are still available at Mouser even tunable IF transformers.

I always thought these transformer coils below could work with theremin design. They are two coils per item so separate them for practical use.
https://www.mouser.com/c/?marcom=113142161

My theremin Phoenix design in action, ugly yet beautiful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDOpPA3YBOk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzDjd21OB9M

Edit: It is because of “ideal linearity”, a theremin phenomenon, that Valery is able to play my theremin design right out of the box it was shipped in. I did not discover this aspect of the theremin rather I was shown how it works.

I use my computer programming skills today to beat the stock market. 99% of the info out there are people scamming you for your money using un-ending bullshit. My favorite is most want you to join their WhatsApp chat room as coyotes like to isolate their prey.

My stock research is a real Answer, hopefully one of many.
https://www.oldtemecula.com/+Sample.pdf

Take care all

Old Temecula

Christophe S Becker

Posted: 9/11/2024 7:32:07 PM
oldtemecula

From: 60 Miles North of San Diego, CA

Joined: 10/1/2014


The Theremin Phenomenon must not be forgotten,
replaced by imitation!

When I say the Theremin Phenomenon is simple in design here it is below. This has ideal linearity, near perfect, and the natural heterodyned voice. I shortened the antenna for the image. Missing is audio amplification and a volume control.


Christopher


Posted: 9/14/2024 11:25:28 AM
dewster

From: Northern NJ, USA

Joined: 2/17/2012

"The authentic theremin is simple in design using a phenomena of nature."  - oldtemecula

Same old tired playbook.  It's called "Electrical Engineering".  Theremins are indeed a wonder to behold, but there's nothing going on that can't be explained by simple Physics, no need to get all mystical.

"This kicks the ass of most engineers so they go with what they know which is digital."

If Theremin had access to digital logic when he was developing the Theremin he most likely would have employed it.  Bob Moog certainly did for many of his later designs which are considered by all to be full Theremins, so should we take it that his ass was kicked as well?  You seem to be arguing that it has to be 100% analog (or else perhaps designed by Moog) otherwise it's No True Scotsman - which you just happen to lay claim to.  But the accepted criterion seems to be: if you are interacting with capacitive fields, then it's a Theremin.  I haven't seen anyone objecting specifically to the digital basis of the Theremini, Open Theremin, etc.

Like it or not, if it can be made via digital means, it probably will be.  Digital is much more controllable and repeatable, and therefore manufacturable - most of us have had experience with the drift and difficulty of tuning with an analog Theremin.  Once you have a processor in the works, the sky's often the limit on what you can do.  With even rudimentary logic you can then easily implement: almost instant field calibration, field linearization, variable field note spacing and location, volume field velocity and shaping, a responsive visual tuner, pitch correction, organic sounding filter-based voice synthesis with volume and pitch hand modulation, MIDI, etc.

"This has ideal linearity, near perfect..."

From what I've been able to ascertain from one of Valerie's videos, your Theremin has the same (fairly poor) linearity typical of a non-EQ design - prove me wrong.  

"... and the natural heterodyned voice."

Heterodyning tends to make for a limited palette of often fairly non-expressive voices.  Linking the fields to the timbre hamstrings both, so there are quite obvious and excellent reasons to divide and conquer here.  It's the lowest hanging fruit in the design space, and has the largest payoff.  You don't need a degree to do this stuff.

Posted: 9/14/2024 3:17:03 PM
ILYA

From: Theremin Motherland

Joined: 11/13/2005


"If Theremin had access to digital logic when he was developing the Theremin he most likely would have employed it. "

As far as I know, Lev Termen was very conservative, and didn't even trust transistors, let alone digital.

Posted: 9/14/2024 4:23:16 PM
dewster

From: Northern NJ, USA

Joined: 2/17/2012

"As far as I know, Lev Termen was very conservative, and didn't even trust transistors, let alone digital." - ILYA

You're right, I shouldn't be presuming to know what Theremin would do in an alternate timeline.  I know there are retro folks out there, but it's hard to imagine any engineer born post tubes not fully embracing solid state.  I guess what I'm saying is our personal design preferences are often based on what we have the most familiarity & experience with (mea culpa).  Those don't necessarily lead us to the best path going forward as newer technologies present themselves.

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