What should I know/be able to do? and some trivia questions

First of all, concerning absolute pitch, let me say a few things. In this topic, I wish to *AVOID* any cliché claims about it. Please do not quote wikipedia, your neighbour or a scientist. Brains are flexible, even old ones, and there's no solid evidence that something might or might not be possible.

Now, as for the actual content of this topic. I have played the flute for 3 years (as a child) and have now completed the sixth year I play the saxophone (I am now 17 years old). I have become interested in playing the theremin and wondered about what I should be able to do and know. I have decent relative pitch (I can figure out intervals with a maximum of two octaves easily) but I don't think I have any absolute pitch. Of course, you can mess around on a theremin without absolute pitch. But does it get you a serious advantage if you do have absolute pitch? Of course, having it means you can play any piece right from paper on the right tune. But just hearing some tune and then go on using relative pitch works for that too. The question is, does it help while playing? If so, does anyone know of anyone who learned an AP-lookalike skill later in his life (again, please do not quote your favorite scientific source on that it's not possible).

Compared to other people, I may not yet have a very good hand-eye coordination. Is this going to be a problem or is it just a matter of training?

Also, is there any musical theory I should be really really familiar with, except for intervals and the usual stuff?

Some small questions:
-When you get near an antenna, do you feel the electrostatic field? Or is it too weak for this?
-Is the electrostatic field strong enough to mess with artificial pacemakers? (not that I have one, but I might need to be careful with other peoples coming near my instrument (once I'd have one))
-Is it easier to improvise on a theremin than on a "normal" instrument?
-How long does it minimally take before you can produce a song people can recognize? Minutes, hours, days, weeks, months, years?

Hi, Tulcod--

Welcome to Theremin World!

About absolute pitch: No, of course you don't strictly need it, any more than singers need it. Absolute pitch is only an advantage, insofar as it keeps you from [i]drifting[/i] off-pitch while you play.

I should point out right away that I also do not have AP; rather, I have good relative pitch. BUT, I have found that there are pieces--especially highly chromatic ones--which I can [i]sing[/i] from start to finish and stay on pitch, but tend to drift a bit when playing on the theremin.

What's going on here? Well, there are two forms of memory involved: cerebral (remembering pitches with your "ear"), and muscular (remembering what the vocal folds are supposed to do, or where the hand is supposed to go in space).

It is much, MUCH easier for the muscles that control the vocal folds to remember where they were a few seconds ago, than it is for the muscles of the hand and arm to remember [i]exactly[/i] where they were a few seconds ago. So, theremin players are constantly making small corrections.

If you have AP, then you're always making the proper correction. If you don't, then small errors of intonation can gradually accumulate, until you've wandered up or down a semitone from where you started.

Welcome to Theremin World, tulcod.

Some of the top players, for instance Carolina Eyck, have excellent absolute pitch, others, such as Pamelia Kurstin, have relative pitch.

If you are intent on playing classical theremin one or the other is a prerequisite, as you cannot play a note or an interval more accurately than you can hear it. With good relative pitch playing solo - without a reference tone - is particularly tricky as you will experience dead-reckoning drift - if you are consistently flat by only a couple of cents it won't take very long until you're a whole semitone out.

You don't need hand-eye coordination, you need hand-ear coordination, which you can learn just like you learn the hand-balance coordination necessary to ride a bike.

I'll leave music theory to someone else who knows what they are talking about.

Do you feel the electrostatic field? No. I do feel a slight thickening of the air around the antenna, but I am certain that this is a trick of the mind, providing a degree of tactile feedback where none exists based on what I hear. It is a very subtle effect. Perhaps better to say I have developed a feel for the control fields in a somewhat literal sense, rather than to say that I feel them.

We talked about pacemakers recently on the forum. The conclusion drawn, after the concerned member - who has a pacemaker - consulted with his pacemaker's manufacturer, was that it does not present a danger to people with pacemakers.

Again, someone else can answer. I do not play any other instrument to offer a comparison. I find improvising a load of fun. Check Pamelia Kurstin's work for some arch-improvisation with a looper.

It shouldn't take long to play something recognisable - at least recognisable in the sense of "oh my god that's supposed to be twinkle twinkle little star isn't it!" To play it well enough that other musicians don't wince and say patronising things takes some serious practice.

(Which is partly why I'm strictly an atonal player and don't massacre well known tunes on youTube (http://youtube.com/profile?user=GordonCharlton). :-)

Brian! Stop posting at the same time as me. It's creepy. :-)

H Tulcod,

-When you get near an antenna, do you feel the electrostatic field? Or is it too weak for this?

The field is way too weak - the amplitude of the (100kHz - 500kHz usually) waveform on the antenna is << 24V peak.. You wont feel a thing! ;)

-Is the electrostatic field strong enough to mess with artificial pacemakers? (not that I have one, but I might need to be careful with other peoples coming near my instrument (once I'd have one))

This has been covered extensively in another thread.. Answer is NO for any well designed Theremin.. And even an absolutely appallingly bad Theremin should not pose any risk.. If the Theremin can cause a pacemaker problems, then there would probably be a risk of fatal electrocution if one touched the antenna!

-Is it easier to improvise on a theremin than on a "normal" instrument?

I think the answer to this is complex, and probably personal.. I believe that the sound and playing method influences the TYPE of improvisation an instrument is best for.. Also, (for me) Improvisation is the transfer of what I am 'hearing' in my head, to the 'physical' world.. So the instrument which most easily facilitates this 'transfer' is best.. And that instrument (for me) is determined by what I am 'hearing' in my head.

The Theremin is a difficult instrument to master - I love sweeping synth (Moog) lead lines, and (to me) the Theremin is ideally suited to improvisation for these type of sounds.. it is also great for any sounds requiring gliding from note to note - perhaps (probably) it is my lack of skill, but I find the Theremin unsuitable for descreet note improvisations.. And anyway, keyboards, flutes, and other instruments are far better at this, as the note positions are clear and fixed.

-How long does it minimally take before you can produce a song people can recognize?

Wrong question, I think! The answer is probably half an hour or less.. Ask "How long does it minimally take before you can produce a song people can recognize, and they can listen to without becoming agitated" and the answer is a lot longer, and the time required is a lot longer! (weeks, months, years - certainly not hours or days, from my expierience!)

Gordon and Brian ! Stop posting at the same time as me.. Its creepy!! ;)

ROTFLMAO...

[i]Stop posting at the same time as me. It's creepy. :-)[/i]

Um, what's that fable about the frog and the scorpion?

"I couldn't stop myself; it's my nature."

Maybe I'll start posting items under the name Creepy Scorpion...

Tulcod, as for your question about improvisation:

IMHO (and of course, YMMV), the theremin is considerably more difficult than most other instruments for improvisation?

Why? Because on a piano, any orangutan can smack just about any random key... and the resulting note will either fit with what other musicians are doing (in which case, the ape can hold the pitch without recrimination), or it will clash in an interesting way (in which case, it can move up or down a step to a pitch that clashes less).

The same goes for a guitar: choose one of the six strings at random, choose one of the 22 frets... etc.

Whereas with a theremin, a more highly developed technique is a prerequisite, unless your fellow musicians (and audience) maintain exceptionally liberal attitudes about intonational accuracy.

That is, pitches found by random placement of the pitch hand will tend to fall between conventional pitches, so you would be constantly correcting, sliding, swooping around to fit what other people are doing. Not that there's anything wrong with that... but the general public will tend to run screaming.

P.S. Speaking as a multi-instrumentalist, if I were facing the prospect of bringing ONE, and only one instrument to an improvisation gig, the theremin would be my last choice.

[i]Blasphemy! Burn the heretic![/i]

That is, I find that with a guitar or keyboard in my hands, I can produce a broader range of sounds and musical figures than I can with the theremin (though, in all fairness, I should point out that I've been playing those instruments longer). The contrast is particularly marked when it comes to percussive attacks.

This is not to say that I pass up opportunities to improvise with theremin! Rather, I always bring another instrument. And then the grass is always greener: e.g., last night I was playing a gig in which I alternated between theremin and keyboard synth. The synth naturally offers a broader range of tone colors, envelopes, etc...

...and yet, every time I played a solo melodic line on the synth, I found myself wanting to have an extra hand or two to tweak parameters of the sound, in order to make it as expressive as what I can do with the theremin.

And, oh yes, about AP:

When I was your age, I was sure that I don't have AP, and that I never would.

However, when I was in graduate school, I discovered that I can get closer than I thought. That is, if you listen to the same piece of music day after day (preferably, day after day after day after day after day), it will begin to burn into your mind at that exact pitch level, and you'll be able to recall it.

(I think it's Daniel J. Levitin, author of [i]This is your brain on music[/i], who led research that found that people in the general population, with no formal training in music whatsoever, can recall familiar pop songs with astonishing accuracy of pitch level and tempo.)

I believe (but can't prove) that this is a matter of short-term vs. long-term memory... and most importantly, that it's not a cut-and-dried, black-and-white, either/or situation. Rather, there's a continuum (shortest term, short term, long term, longer term...) of abilities. At the godlike upper extreme are the folk whom you can awaken in the middle of the night, ask for an F#, and get one dead-on. At the bottom end are people who can't stay on pitch from beginning to end of a phrase. Most of us fall somewhere in between... and yes, you can improve with time and practice.