Delay

Posted: 5/25/2008 9:09:55 PM
GordonC

From: Croxley Green, Hertfordshire, UK

Joined: 10/5/2005

And another question for you, Big A. Any thoughts on the Boss OC-3 octave downer?

Plus...

This (http://pigtronix.com/products08/echolution.html) looks like a nice delay.

Vid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fM9KyKd54Ac).
Posted: 5/25/2008 10:26:01 PM
Alexander

From: Bristol, United Kingdom

Joined: 12/30/2006

Tesla - I don't use them, last time I experienced one was a guitarist in a short-lived band who traded in his pedalboard for a multiFX unit. It was unremarkable.

Dunno about the Octaver, Gordon, never tried one! The Echolution does look fun though.

I should really get a Jomox T-Resonator (http://www.jomox.com/product_details.php?lang=2&category=&product_id=3) and so should you.
Posted: 5/25/2008 11:55:36 PM
Brian R

From: Somerville, MA

Joined: 10/7/2005

Oh CTHULHUUUUUUU, I want one!!!

And if you think the T-Resonator's guitar and drum-machine demos are fun, check out this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6FHbqRb9S4)... I take it the device is self-oscillating? All the more tantalizing to imagine thereminical possibilities.

[i]oops... correction![/i] Video above seems to be based on processing of some insanely simple little loop... here's another (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0BXMVEhJso&feature=related) that's just T-Resonator feedback. A fortiori, Yowza!

Posted: 5/26/2008 4:10:53 AM
GordonC

From: Croxley Green, Hertfordshire, UK

Joined: 10/5/2005

I'm a bit ambivalent about that one. One the one hand I can appreciate the benefits of the random knob twiddling approach, having witnessed it produce unexpectedly excellent results, but at the same time my inner control freak [i]needs[/i] to know what is going on, and this is clearly designed to be not understood.

Well, not by me, anyway - two and a half years in and I'm still finding ways to extract goodness from a simple delay box - figuring out the T-Resonator look's like a lifetime endeavour.

Now I'm on to ring-moddery - I've got the idea of two frequencies go in, sum and difference go out, but that leaves a lot of questions - how do the amplitudes of the new frequencies relate to the amplitudes of the input frequencies? If I feed it two identical sine waves does it act like a full wave rectifier to double the frequency or do I get a sine-wave out or some other waveform? What does it do to the phase of the signals? Enquiring minds want to know.
Posted: 5/26/2008 9:06:19 AM
Brian R

From: Somerville, MA

Joined: 10/7/2005

I, too, harbor intense control-freak tendencies... in my case, the T-Resonator is attractive as an antidote.

Vis-a-vis theremins, I find a more-sober-morning-after concern: viz., that much of what I love about the demos lies in the very twiddling, the dynamic modification of delay and filter and feedback. So, to attain true happiness, I would probably need to perch the T-Res atop a stool, near the volume loop, for ready access between phrases.

Perhaps this is my cue to start learning Max/MSP...

Posted: 5/26/2008 11:48:05 AM
teslatheremin

From: Toledo, Ohio United States of America

Joined: 2/22/2006

Hello,
Alexander:
Thanks for your reply. I guess I love pedal chains, too, but, I find that a preset multi-effects pedal can shape one's Theremin tone more conveniently with reliable duplicatiion of results. No more trying to remember all those knob settings from different pedals for that last "cool" sound.

Gordon:
The Echolution seems to be of devine inspiration! I WILL have one! I must!

Brian R.:
The T-Resonator looks like hours of fun. Almost like is was birthed by a circuit-bender. I'll have to see if it is available in the USA.

Good Luck!

tesaltheremin

Posted: 5/26/2008 7:57:09 PM
GordonC

From: Croxley Green, Hertfordshire, UK

Joined: 10/5/2005

I bet It's the phi button sold it for you. :-)

Weird, isn't it. As noted in the blurb - golden ratio, visually aesthetically appealing, occurs all over the show in nature, but in music we are familiar with consonance and steady rhythms, all depending on simple arithmetic ratios. And the golden ratio is, in a very reasonable mathematical way, as far from a simple ratio as you can get. But the little video clip of it in use does sound good. My guess is that he is moving the taps a little forward or backwards to meet approximate multiples of phi mod 1 or somesuch so that the timing is a tiny bit looser and not so machine-rigid sounding, and that the choice of relating this to the "mystical properties" of that particular number was so some extent arbitrary.

(Also, oops - I now realise I was confusing the T-Resonator, which I had chanced upon some while ago, with another Jomox device I saw at the same time - the Resonator Neuronium (http://www.jayemsonic.de/homeenglish.html). Onlne shop- with yT demo here (http://www.jomox.com/product_details.php?lang=2&category=2&product_id=9).)


Anyway, enough drooling over technoporn. It's not a first pedal. The fact is there is a lot of good mileage to be had from the most basic of delays. Peter Pringle recently described the theremin as an incomplete instrument, in the sense that a complete instrument can produce rhythm, melody and harmony at the same time. Any delay or looper "completes" the theremin, in a limited way, (i.e. with the sort of limitations that can have you seriously consider spending more than the cost of the instrument on an echolution if you're that way inclined) and, with the naturally occurring pitch variations of the theremin it will give you access to interesting microtonal interactions - cluster drones, beat frequencies, and celeste-like sounds. Which is why, Goat Punishment, if you're still reading this thread, I think you'll get on fine with your Dan Echo. :-)


Posted: 5/26/2008 10:50:10 PM
Brian R

From: Somerville, MA

Joined: 10/7/2005

Tesla: You've probably already found these vendors, but just in case: At the very least, the Jomox devices are sold in the U.S.A. by Big City Music (Los Angeles), Nova Musik (Milwaukee), and Analogue Haven (Santa Monica).

Gordon: Funny thing, that your controlling tendencies turn you away from the T-Resonator in favor of ring modulation. I bought a ring modulator a few years ago (admittedly, not a great one: the Snarling Dogs Mold Spore pedal (http://www.snarlingdogs.com/products/mspore.html) incarnation), and it just gathers dust... because I couldn't control it to suit my tyrannical whims.

I've been planning to sell it on e-Bay this summer... though if it interests you, let me know (brian DOT c DOT robison AT gmail DOT com) and perhaps we could strike a bargain.

[update: Yes, I realize you're probably talking about mischief within Max/MSP... but thought I'd offer, just the same.]


Posted: 5/27/2008 4:56:59 AM
GordonC

From: Croxley Green, Hertfordshire, UK

Joined: 10/5/2005

Oooh! A ring-wah with sweepable carrier. Tasty.

Hmm. The reviews at harmony central are helpful as usual. (Ranging from hunk 'o' junk to Best. Pedal. Ever.) The users at NoiseGuide.com view it in a more uniformly positive light which may or may not be a good thing. There are a couple on eBay at the moment, one in the UK, one in the US (items 330238905556 and 270239753709 respectively) that finish on Thursday and Saturday and look like they're going to get a higher price than I'm willing to pay. Add to this the cost of shipping a 3 kilogramme (!) device across the big pond and I think I'll pass on your generous offer. Should do well on eBay for you. :-) I might bid on the UK one if it doesn't skyrocket in the last few minutes. (I expect it will.)

Yes, basically I'm thinking about MaxMSP - digital ring-moddery is tamer and better behaved, but I'm also thinking about a live set-up. I'm not keen on taking my laptop to gigs. I already have an analogue ring-mod (kind of - it's back at the boutique for modding) details in Gordon's Progress here (http://www.thereminworld.com/forum.asp?cmd=p&T=2743&F=808&p=8) - The Panic Box (aka Ann, The Annihilist or The Weirding Module) but that does a rather different thing to the Snarling Dogs Mold Spore. (Love the name btw - very William Burroughs circa Ah Pook Was Here.)

My interest in the ring-mod does not stem from my control freakery, but from something Man From Uranus wrote:

[i]...the Theremin loves ring modulation perhaps better than any other instrument - especially for those enhanced UFO sounds.
[/i][...][i]
Ring Modulation of Sine tones was the most classic tool of early electronic music - used to great effect in the soundtrack for Forbbiden planet. Originally Ring Modulation and Sine wave generators were used for testing radio equipment before the sound freaks of the 1950s got ahold of the rather large and scientific looking boxes for aural experiments. Eventually the effect was used in the first Modular synths to create new timbres. As the Theremin is sine tone, with a Ring Mod you have instant Radiophonic workshop at your hands.[/i]

Given my interest, my inner control freak needs to understand.

Posted: 5/27/2008 6:27:06 AM
fairplay

From: Germany, near Munich

Joined: 11/20/2007

[i]I'm not keen on taking my laptop to gigs.[/i]

...funny, that is the exact reason why I am looking to move my hardware-stuff to software: the idea to just take the (Mac OS X based ;o) laptop and have everything in one - carryable - place with me...

...interfacing (as in: control, change and configure) is another problem: to give company to the theremin I use an Octopus (http://www.genoqs.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=46&Itemid=119)for 'repeating'-stuff, and since a couple of weeks I also have an Lemur (http://www.jazzmutant.com/lemur_overview.php)as new pet available, which allows me to get really interesting effects in combination with the hardware (and hopefully later software) effects...at the moment the Lemur sits just below my pitch-hand and allows for quick interaction...

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