What theremin to buy?

Posted: 4/12/2009 9:54:36 PM
teslatheremin

From: Toledo, Ohio United States of America

Joined: 2/22/2006

Why not look at Burns?
You Moog cheerleaders always lament the passing of one of the most playable Theremins ever offered: the Etherwave Pro. But, those B.'s at moog just loved to dump it as soon after St. Bob passed. Yet, you seem to want to feed the fools at Moog with money. Get a set and at least look to another path to Theremin linearity.
Happy Easter!
TT
Posted: 4/12/2009 11:10:45 PM
dae23

From: Asheville, NC

Joined: 1/25/2008

Ahhh...

but buying a used moog would not be handing Moog money. It would be two fellow thereminists helping each other out. One into theremins and one towards a lovely Wavefront Classic ;)

By the way, I might be listing the above mentioned setup on ebay sometime next weekend.
Posted: 4/13/2009 5:21:02 AM
GordonC

From: Croxley Green, Hertfordshire, UK

Joined: 10/5/2005

Thierry wrote [i]The Plus version may be of interest for people who want to tinker around with sound effects and synths, but what is commonly called "playability" is not at all affected. If I look at the Moog demonstration videos, I can't stop thinking that this has nothing in common with Clara Rockmore's or Sam Hoffman's playing. In my eyes these additional features of the Plus degrade it from a musical instrument to a simple gesture controller.[/i]

No disrespect to EricK or the guys from Moog, but I don't think there has been an etherwave plus demo video yet that realises the actual potential of theremin with CV.

Let's talk about an analogous situation...

My father doesn't like Science Fiction movies. He calls them special effects movies, because they depict events that contravene the laws of physics so are impossible in the real world and he is not comfortable with that. What he likes is a nice historical drama - just as unrealistic as Sci-Fi in many ways, but at least there is no danger that Catherine of Aragon will suddenly morph into a teapot.

So he dismisses the whole notion of special effects in movies. Except, of course, these days [i]ALL[/i] Hollywood movies are special effects movies. It's just that the movies he likes use effects subtly - they are not obvious, but they enhance the movie in a thousand tiny ways. And they are processed using exactly the same software. Final Cut Studio or equivalent products from other companies.


The theremin plus demos on youtube are not equivalent to a historical drama. They're not even equivalent to a Sci-Fi movie. They're more like a snapshot of the day the technician installed Final Cut Studio on his computer and spent some time having fun messing about with the more extreme effects. This sort of thing is interesting to other people in the same profession, but the general public would have a hard time extrapolating from it to the movie they just watched on TV.


To cite Peter Pringle as an example of a classical thereminist, he chooses which theremin to use for a particular piece according to its timbres. For one piece it might be Hoffman's RCA, for another the Moog Ethervox and so on. Whichever is most appropriate. I say timbre[b]s[/b] advisedly because the timbre of a theremin varies with pitch, and to some extent with volume. To create that sort of subtle variation on a conventional analogue synthesiser requires the synth to know what pitch is being played, and at what volume, and that is exactly the information that CV provides. (If anyone is reading this who has both experience of playing classical music and modular synthesis would like to add their thoughts I would be grateful. As is often the case with my comments this is mostly guesswork.)


Tangentially - I think Moog missed a trick with the Plus (and the Pro.) It would be neat if they also had CV in to allow the Waveform and Brightness (and Filter) to be controlled dynamically during a performance.
Posted: 4/13/2009 8:24:21 AM
GordonC

From: Croxley Green, Hertfordshire, UK

Joined: 10/5/2005

To get back on topic...

My opinion.

I have not had personal experience of the Burns or Wavefront instruments, so cannot speak for or against them.

The Etherwave is a good first theremin, and robust enough to take on tour. The "playable" or linear range is more limited than the top end instruments, but certainly usable. A linear field won't make you a better player, but it might make it easier to play at your best.

If you're thinking long term and will want to get into synthesising your own timbres then get the plus, but don't agonise over it - you can always upgrade later.

Once you have your theremin, the best upgrade is a better amp, to bring out the nuances of timbre.
Posted: 4/13/2009 8:48:52 AM
Thierry

From: Colmar, France

Joined: 12/31/2007

GordonC wrote:
[i]The Etherwave is a good first theremin, and robust enough to take on tour. The "playable" or linear range is more limited than the top end instruments, but certainly usable. A linear field won't make you a better player, but it might make it easier to play at your best.

If you're thinking long term and will want to get into synthesising your own timbres then get the plus, but don't agonise over it - you can always upgrade later.

Once you have your theremin, the best upgrade is a better amp, to bring out the nuances of timbre.[/i]

I fully acknowledge!
The Etherwave Standard is not at all a bad instrument. The mixer/waveshaping section creates timbres which one might enjoy or not (I don't). But already with its default tuning it gives you about 5 nearly linear octaves when properly set up. One may later choose another internal adjustment for 7+ octaves with slight compression effects in the highest 1+ octave.

I also did not think enough about the amplifier question and spent my money for a tiny Moog TB15 amp. I could kick myself! There are tin cans which sound better... Now I'm sitting with this piece of "merde" and can't afford something other for the moment.
Posted: 4/13/2009 11:52:03 AM
hewson

From: brooklyn, NY

Joined: 2/11/2009

Thierry wrote:
[i]...In my eyes these additional features of the Plus degrade it from a musical instrument to a simple gesture controller. And for that it is too expensive. The Paia Theremax for example has the same cv outputs and costs only the half...[/i]

Well, Thierry is absolutely right when you factor in the associated costs, but i would add the caveat that CV outputs on the etherwave are very useful to the "musical" player. Ideally speaking, the pitch/volume CV outputs allow you to get the same "reasonably decent" linearity of the etherwave but also open up the output to any manner of timbre, be it a purer sine wave or whatever else you need out of the theremin. unfortunately, all of these options are pretty ridiculously expensive (vis-a-vis just adding some pedals on the outboard side of a standard) unless you happen to already own a lot of CV gear...



Posted: 4/13/2009 5:17:52 PM
GordonC

From: Croxley Green, Hertfordshire, UK

Joined: 10/5/2005

[i]The mixer/waveshaping section creates timbres which one might enjoy or not (I don't).[/i]

They are rather harsh compared to a tVox Tour.

I'm wondering if an adaptive low-pass filter would make it more mellow.

EricK - have you tried connecting the pitch CVout to the cut-off on an MF101?
Posted: 4/14/2009 4:52:31 AM
FredM

From: Eastleigh, Hampshire, U.K. ................................... Fred Mundell. ................................... Electronics Engineer. (Primarily Analogue) .. CV Synths 1974-1980 .. Theremin developer 2007 to present .. soon to be Developing / Trading as WaveCrafter.com . ...................................

Joined: 12/7/2007

[i]"I'm wondering if an adaptive low-pass filter would make it more mellow."[/i]

If one has a Theremin with CV out (1V/Octave) and uses this CV to control a low pass VCF, the VCF tuning will track the Theremin tone, and allow the harmonic content to be 'smoothed' as desired.. For example, adjusting the VCF to the frequency of the 2nd harmonic, will cause attenuation of all higher harmonics, at (depending on the VCF) 12db or 24db / octave.

I love Moog VCF's (Ladder type filter) for most applications - but playing with Theremin tone control, I do not think they sound 'right' - they impart the classic 'VCF sound".. To my ears, a 12db/octave OTA (or similar) based VCF with its Q set low (no peaking)mellows the sound without giving a 'VCF' sound.

Tracking adjustment is also important - one may sometimes deliberately want the tone (harmonic content) to change as the pitch changes.. having an adjustable tracking (0.75V/Octave to 1.25V/Octave) facilitates this.

Bottom line - If I was to buy a EW, I would go for the Plus version for the purpose of filtering, even if I was never going to drive a VCO with it.. Also, Anyone who dislikes the 'roughness' of the EW tone (particularly at the Bass end) is likely to find that the tone is dramatically improved by the right VCF...

Unfortunately, from what I have heard (U-Tube Demo's etc) The Pitch->CV converter on the EW works well at the higher frequencues (> 200Hz) But seems to 'jitter' at the LF end (in one demo they blamed the Voyager for this, but I think it is much more likely to be pitch->CV glitching from the EW).. Such glitching, if it is from the EW CV, makes the CV useless (in my opinion) where it is most needed.
Posted: 4/14/2009 5:51:35 AM
Thierry

From: Colmar, France

Joined: 12/31/2007

The problem of the Moog pitch CV circuit is that the audio frequency first divided by 4 in order to get a frequency proportional PWM signal which is then integrated (and still frequency proportional) before it is converted to a logarithmic output voltage. The Moog default adjustment is to have 0V at C3 (~130Hz). So imagine that the lowest octave C3 to C4 has to be converted from 32,5 to 65Hz pulses (perhaps with additional 50/60Hz interference) into a theoretically continuous voltage between 0 and 1V - a technical challenge!

I have developed an algorithm to do this logarithmic frequency-voltage conversion with much more precision in a simple microcontroller which needs only to run at 16MHz. The output voltage will naturally not be absolutely continuous but very small and stable(!) discrete steps at the D/A output. I think that steps smaller than 1 ct will not be audible as such during a glissando. A positive side effect would be a LCD display for the actual note (and eventual +/- deviation) in real time.

Such a device would allow to have a visual tuner and a precision 1V/oct (adjustable) cv output for every theremin which has a tuner/pitch preview output.

For the moment this solution exists only on paper, since I have absolutely no practical experience with microcontrollers and neither the time nor the money to dive into all this. Partnership suggestions are welcome!
Posted: 4/14/2009 9:30:33 AM
Rasputin

Joined: 1/3/2009

Oh my, what a heated turn this thread took!

I don't understand much of the lingo (this is the moment when I'm supposed to regret for not taking physics in high-school) but..

I have a Marshell guitar amp (the MG seriesm 30 watt). I think that as long it won't explode it's good... The mic' stand is something I need.

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