Theremin Sales / Market

Hmmm.. Thank you all! -

So it looks like the bottom line is something like:

Total Theremin sales per year (excluding toys) about 1500 ?

Most of these sales are EW or EW price range instruments, with perhaps a couple of hundred higher priced 'Pro' instruments sold per year.

- This is not going to make the 'bean counters' happy.. I cannot, even if I get investment for volume purchase, come into the market at or below EW price with what I have on my bench at present - so, price wise, this instrument is targeted somewhere between EW and (original) E-Pro price.. going into/over the E-Pro price for fully expanded units.

So, at best (picking up some of the EW sales and a reasonable % of the top end market) I am possibly looking at 250 units per year..

The information you have provided is a great help - but if anyone has more substantial / verifiable sources, or advice, please continue sending / posting it.

The Tvox is a worrying puzzle to me - Why, having done all the development and brought this instrument to market, is it not being produced? It appears that both The E-Pro and the Tvox have been deemed to be commercially un-viable.. My Theremin is more complex (expensive) to produce than either of these...

I will not (cannot) give up now - but I am getting a sinking feeling that perhaps my bank manager is right, and I should have looked at this market closer, two years ago.

Well Fred, only you know if you've been chasing your tail this whole time. I do know one thing...your bank manager is never going to be completely satisfied.

You both have completely different agendas. You'd like to produce and sell a quality musical instrument and hopefully make it worth your while. Your banker is only interested in a guaranteed return on his investment. He doesn't give a rat's arse about theremins.

My understanding about the tVox is that it was taking up too much time for George to maintain both it and his day job, and not returning enough for him to give up his job. I believe he outsourced the manufacture to a company in Hong Kong.

I suppose the other option would be to hand-build to order and price it against the wavefront classic - at least until you have more orders than you can fulfil, and then you can say to the bank "well I have this many orders at this price - at half the price I could likely sell this many more..."

(Or licence the technology? I wonder if for example Sony have noticed that the theremin market is growing?)

I note in passing that other British theremin manufacturers target their products at the electronica market, rather than the thereminist market specifically. It's bigger. I wonder - you mentioned there was a modular aspect to the instrument - are there any parts that could rack-mount and sell to the modular synth market?

[i]Hmmmm....That's interesting....and strange.

After seven years, I'm still aware of only three people who own a Tvox Tour; Lydia, Barbara, and Wilco.

So, who owns the other 197 Tvox's? Does anyone know what they sold for originally?[/i]

Most have been sold in Japan according Lydia, the price was about the double of an Etherwave Standard.

@Fred:

Tell your bank manager that you'll have still to pay important sums to suppress potential concurrents... ;-)))

Afaik there is Mark Keppinger incubating a new theremin, Gakken will perhaps also target the market on a higher level.

[i]"(Or licence the technology? I wonder if for example Sony have noticed that the theremin market is growing?)" GordonC[/i]

Yes, have looked at this - but even if the Theremin market grew to 10x its present size, it is way too small to even slightly interest the likes of Sony.. I intend to target OEM's already in the Theremin market, and sell the custom ICs I have developed for linearization etc.. I also plan to release versions of these for the general capacitive sensor market (may find this market brings in more revenue than the Theremin market) - But when I mention the sensor market to bean-counters, their eyes light up, and they want me to drop the Theremin and just go for this market.... Investment is lower (It would be required for advertising / marketing only - something beancounters understand).

[i]"other British theremin manufacturers target their products at the electronica market, rather than the thereminist market specifically. It's bigger. I wonder - you mentioned there was a modular aspect to the instrument - are there any parts that could rack-mount and sell to the modular synth market?" - GordonC[/i]

Yes - I have no idea what the electronica market size / value is.. but my Theremin is entirely modular - The 'core' is a 2 antenna Theremin giving CV and Trigger outputs and containing a VCA as its only 'audio' element (This is a log VCA - VCA's in external synth modules often have crappy control laws which would not do justice to the linear volume CV output by my Theremin - so I am including a extremely precise high quality VCA through which audio can be routed).. This Theremin controller could drive any external voltage controlled rack or synthesiser.

All the sound modules (effectively, my Theremin sound modules will be complete VC Synthesisers) - The simplest being a standard VCO / VCF, the next being a voltage controlled heterodyning synth with simple Theremin "cloning" (as discussed in previous threads), then there would be probably a couple of more complex / advanced heterodyning versions, and finally a full "configurable heterodyning analogue computer" allowing additive synthesis on a harmonic-by-harmonic level, and configurability which should allow every possible Theremin to be 'cloned' or created..

All of these would be usable in any voltage controlled modular system.

But - The Electronica market is probably a lot less interested in playability and linearity - after all, they have put up with the Doepfer antennas without complaint!

- None of this is / would be of any interest to beancounters... The are only interested in how much investement / loan I want, and safe facts to verify that they will get their money+ back within a specified time.. I cant say I blame them.. but it annoys me that they are happy to lend for purchase of a car for example, but balk at lending for a batch of circuit boards.

[i]"Afaik there is Mark Keppinger incubating a new theremin, Gakken will perhaps also target the market on a higher level." -Thierry [/i]

Everyone getting product onto this market faces the 'numbers' I do.
MK's Theremin design is tiny compared to mine - if he gets it (the design we saw) to work, and it is even as good as an EW, I will be astounded.

Sorry - but I do not see the new MK as a competitor of any kind - the more I work with the VC Theremin concept, the more I am sure that MK has got it wrong... If he proves me wrong, then I will go out of business.. If he can generate good, linear, clean CV's from the circuit we saw, then I have wasted a year developing a complex set of circuitry needlessly, and I am a fool unworthy of even the title "engineer" let alone "consultant".

Gakken is more of a worry - If they were to develop a good Theremin, then, with their low cost and high volume they could take the market completely.

Anyway - this has gone a bit OT..

Back to burry my head in my soldering iron....8-|

Oh wow!

Your Theremin sounds VERY intriguing. Considering my interests involve theremins, modular synthesizers, and additive synthesis (Hammond organ).

[i]"Oh wow! Your Theremin sounds VERY intriguing" - Dae23 [/i]

Thanks! - But please, dont get too excited..
People here have waited a long time for me to get any product on the market, and I still haven't ! .. I do not want to raise hopes or expectations, so please dont interpret what was said as a product announcement or impending product announcement.

At present, I have my prototype 'core' running, and driving external VCO/VCF. I am working on fine-tuning the response and span of the user controls.. quite a bit to do even on the core.

The synth modules (apart from the simple VCO/VCF) consist of rough "proof of concept" breadboards - The additive heterodyning module is a block diagram and rough program specification, and a simple breadboard mixing 3 harmonics, for proof of concept - This module will be extremely complex and requires a digital interface and LCD display.. I have a Russian programmer lined up to develop this module and possibly go into partnership with me on this project, but work will not start on it until probably October this year.

I just want you to be aware that it could be a long time before it gets to market!

[i]But - The Electronica market is probably a lot less interested in playability and linearity - after all, they have put up with the Doepfer antennas without complaint![/i]

My impression was that the etherwave plus was the weapon of choice for CV these days. (Another video demoing the plus appeared on my Synthtopia RSS feed while I was typing this. Here (http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2009/07/13/moog-etherwave-plus-theremin-demo/).)

[edit] ... and having just watched it, please, please Fred, when you eventually come to promote your instrument, get someone who can actually play the damn thing, preferably in tune ... [/edit]

FredM,
What about the kit market?
There is a 'thirst' there--- With the impending doom that the surface mount technology presents:
no more circuit boards to solder upon! TEARS!
But, if you could offer your greatest Theremin design as a 'place parts and solder' --- what then?!
Good Luck!
teslatheremin