The Magnetic Cello (Simular to the Theremin Cello)

I have gotten some good feedback on youtube, and I want to show you guys, the theremin community, the new instrument I have worked on:

You can watch it here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBjeKJ98pEk)

The magnetic cello has a similar size, shape, and playing style of an acoustic cello. However, instead of a horsehair bow, the player uses a magnetic rod. Without actually touching the body of the instrument, The player can control the volume and articulation. This is similar to the way an electric field is used to controls the pitch and volume of a theremin.

Like a theremin cello, pitch is selected along resistive ribbons, which act like the "string". However, while the theremin cello has one string, the magnetic cello has four. This makes the cello easier to play.

While this isn't a theremin, I think that you guys will appreciate it. This is just a prototype, and I definitely need to improve the circuitry, add more options, find a good cellist, ect. But constructive comments are really appreciated.

Thanks for watching, and I'll be back with some updates in a few months.

P.S. Sorry about misspelling "similar" in the title

Hello Magnetovore,

I am impressed by your overall design; you have a lot of thought, energy and time in it.

I am not a believer in patents here in the states because most (> 90%) will leave you at a financial loss. If you like lawyers go for it; a patent gives you the right to bare knuckle cage fighting with someone. It will probably be your own lawyer!

As a home hobbyist I have done a bit of magnet research using chromed cow magnets and certain Hall Effect and coil experiments. The response I see you getting from the use of your hand held (volume) magnet bewilders me in what appears to be smooth control, not just on/off. I am missing a piece to the puzzle?

Don’t give up any secrets so the many home researchers out here have something to explore.

I would like to see you try the Cello part in “Good Vibrations” then slide right into that classic Electro-Theremin ending.

Well done David and I hope to see more!

Edit: You are only 18 yrs old. I went back and listened to your webpage sound bytes, Wow! Are you in California?


Christopher

wrote: ...while the theremin cello has one string, the magnetic cello has four. This makes the cello easier to play.


You bet it does! I talked to the theremin cellists when the instrument was re-introduced at the Slee Concert Hall (http://www.peterpringle.com/cello.html) back in 2002, and one of the challenges for the musicians (both of whom were professional cellists) was playing on a single string.

Virtuoso thereminist Clara Rockmore, in her book METHOD FOR THEREMIN, warns thereminists about attempting transcriptions of compositions that are easy on the violin or cello "the over the string ones", but extremely difficult on the theremin because it has only one string. Just to make matters worse, that string also happens to be invisible!!

P.S. - I am "copperleaves" on YT. You should take a serious look at how Professor Lippold Haken solved some of the problems of polyphony with his Continuum fingerboard. I hope you realize that what you have undertaken, if you bring it to it's creative conclusion, is the work of a lifetime.

wrote: I am not a believer in patents here in the states because most (> 90%) will leave you at a financial loss.

I wrote the Provisional Patent myself. I probably won't apply for a regular patent for both of the reasons you pointed out: It costs too much and only gives you the ability to get into a legal fight. But I wanted to keep the option open as long as possible (I had run out of the one year for prior art last august) and at least have an official record of prior art (when the PPA is released in 18 months) in case anyone tries to copy.

wrote: As a home hobbyist I have done a bit of magnet research using chromed cow magnets and certain Hall Effect and coil experiments. The response I see you getting from the use of your hand held (volume) magnet bewilders me in what appears to be smooth control, not just on/off. I am missing a piece to the puzzle?

The volume control of magnetic cello is based on magnetic inductance and velocity, not magnetic field strength or the position of the magnet. I am not sure how strong your magnets are but I put about $30 dollars worth of neodymium in the bow. And the problem with Hall Effect sensors is that they effectively only test a single point. To get smooth results, you have to use a longer coil. Amps with very high mV sensitivity help too.


To find out more read my provisional patent! (http://tiny.cc/611kr)

wrote: I would like to see you try the Cello part in “Good Vibrations” then slide right into that classic Electro-Theremin ending.
As thorwald jorgensen pointed out on my youtube page, the magnetic cello is more traditional (in playing style) then the theremin cello. To play good vibrations, a musician needs a steady, continuous volume. Because this instrument is “bowed”, very long notes aren't yet possible. But I'll add the option to completely skip around the coil and only use the strings.

Anyway, thanks Christopher and yes, I'm 18 and yes, I live within 30 miles of Los Angeles.

wrote: ...one of the challenges for the musicians (both of whom were professional cellists) was playing on a single string.

I think that Paganini challenged himself to only one violin string, but for just about all cellist, multiple stings are a must. From a few of the videos I've seen, the cellists have their fingers all the way down to their knees. In my humble opinion, the instrument maker really needs to focus on how the instrument is played, even before tone or novelty. The way it sounds and the options it has can be improved later, but you have to get the basic mechanics right first.

wrote: I hope you realize that what you have undertaken, if you bring it to it's creative conclusion, is the work of a lifetime.

This isn't my only “big” idea; I have some other projects in the queue. But those are a few decades out. Right now, I'll focus on studying EE and improving the magnetic cello.

magnetovore said:

[i]“Right now, I'll focus on studying EE and improving the magnetic cello."[/i]


I agree, but know you are the rare individual that only comes along once in a while!

“America’s Got Talent”

Hi magnetovore,

Unfortunately, I don't know how to play the cello, am not an expert in electronics and don't even have a formal musical education, so my opinion is a layman's opinion... but anyway I have to say that I find your magnetic cello impressive!

I hope you keep up the good work and stay away from anyone who wants to waste that great mind directing it to useless things like management or the financial sector.

As for patents, the US patent system has just been reformed a couple of days ago: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leahy-Smith_America_Invents_Act

"magnetovore": I think that Paganini challenged himself to only one violin string..


Signor Paganini, who was a notorious ham, was in the habit of ensuring that at least one of the strings on his violin would break LOUDLY during a concert. He would then proceed to play on only three strings (to the amazement of the audience). If he was lucky, the fury of his playing would then bust another string...and so on until he was playing on only one.

He carefully fostered the rumor that his virtuosity was attributable to the fact that he was in league with the devil.

One of the things builders of electronic instruments must ask themselves is whether their device is easier to play than the traditional instrument that inspired it. If the answer to this is NO, then what is the advantage to the electronic version? Is there something else about it that makes it more desirable than its acoustic progenitor?

A few years ago, a woman wrote to me for advice on buying a theremin. She said that all she wanted to do with the instrument was learn the Bach unaccompanied cello suites. I explained to her that the suites cannot be played on the theremin and that even if they could, the theremin is a more difficult instrument to play than the cello. So why not learn the cello?

When RCA released their first theremins in 1929, they were convinced that it was going to catch on like wildfire and that within a decade there would be a theremin in every living room in America. The promotional campaign was entirely based on the claim that the instrument was easy to play, and that anyone could do it, with no practice or training at all, on a par with the greatest professional concert cellists, violinists and pianists in the world.

This was a humongous lie and within two years, after manufacturing only about 500 instruments, RCA dropped the theremin altogether. It was revived twenty years later thanks to the dedication and innovation of young Robert Moog. In 1953, when Bob Moog began to market his very first theremins, he was about the same age you are now.

BTW, Bob Moog never patented his Etherwave theremin innovations because the process was too expensive (about $10,000.00 in the 1980's). His ideas have been copied by others but the "niche" market for theremins is so small that the loss proved insignificant.

wrote: As for patents, the US patent system has just been reformed a couple of days ago: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leahy-Smith_America_Invents_Act

Hey AlKhwarizmi,
I finally got around to reading about the patent change. I knew that it was going to happen and that it would remove lab notebooks and other “first to invent” evidence in patent fights, but I didn't know that it had already passed.

It also looks like they changed the definition of prior art. Before, if you sold, published, demonstrated, ect. your invention, you had one year to get a filing date (I filed about 11 months after preforming it at a small talent show at a park near my home).

But now it looks like demonstrations and retail make it prior art instantly? Also, I read somewhere that If you preform/demonstrate the result of your invention but don't reveal how it works that it does not count as prior art (think Willy Wonka's cloaked Everlasting Gobstopper Device). Does this still hold?

Thanks,
David