Is it possible?

It is possible to play a Moog Ethervox theremin with a Haken continuum fingerboard using a MIDI signal.

My suggestion for someone wanting to do this would be simply to play an ondes martenot. Basically, that is what an ondes is - a keyboard theremin. Maurice Martenot developed his ondes because gestural control ("le jeu a distance") was too difficult. 

"It is possible to play a Moog Ethervox theremin with a Haken continuum fingerboard using a MIDI signal" - Coalport

This is true - but one is not in fact playing a "theremin" per-se, you are playing the voltage controlled synthesiser within this theremin.. What you hear (audio out) is not the result of heterodyning in this mode.

As you say, the odes martenot is a keyboard controlled theremin - it is, as far as I know, the only keyboard producing audio through heterodyning.

Fred.

Drinking French wine and thinking happy thoughts!

Fred we are bro's and more alike than not.

I do have fun on the board, never really intend to hurt anyone's feelings. (-'

Got my Talking Machine today and built the pitch section of a solid state theremin extremely rich in harmonics and so we shall see what happens. Sound samples are my way of communicating. Stay tuned.

Hi Fred,

You're right about the Haken continuum fingerboard control of the Moog Ethervox. The MIDI signal from the Haken triggers VOICE TWO which is not heterodyne. 

The Moog SERIES 91 theremins are all VC synthesizers. Does that mean they aren't really theremins at all?

 

"The Moog SERIES 91 theremins are all VC synthesizers. Does that mean they aren't really theremins at all?"

 

Hi Peter,

You know that in the past I have been a pedantic A*hole ;-) - well, ive mellowed a bit! I dont like the fact, but it is a fact - the word "theremin" is generally used for anything where pitch is changed as a function of proximity.. And I have decided that there is no point in trying to be a one-person 'barrier' against the acceptance of this "definition".

 

Its a bit like the question as to whether a theremin is a synthesiser - I believe that it falls within this classification, you (and apparently Bob Moog shared this view) believe it is not a synthesiser.. So be it!

 

There are a group of specifications related to what "should" "could" and "is" called a theremin today - there may be more which I miss, but these are off the top of my head:

 

 

1 – Proximity sensing:

1a:  Pitch controlled by proximity sensing

1b:  Pitch controlled by capacitive proximity sensing

1c:  Volume controlled by proximity sensing

1d:  Volume controlled by capacitive proximity sensing

 

2 – Real-time Control other than by proximity:

2a: Control of pitch

2b: Control of volume

 

3 – Method of  operation / sound generation:

3a: Analogue variable oscillator VFO directly connected to pitch antenna, sound generated by analogue heterodyning with REF oscillator. [Moog EW etc, my H1, EPE, SC etc]

3b: Logic level mixed signal VFO, or VFO directly connected to pitch antenna,  converted to logic level, followed by mixed signal processing / heterodyning [Moog E-Pro, and some of my prototypes and my H1]

3c: Conversion of pitch antenna proximity to a quantization free voltage, and from this voltage driving a non-heterodyning sound engine (synthesizer). [Moog 91 series + my FDL P/T]

3d: Conversion of pitch antenna proximity to a quantization free voltage, and from this voltage driving a heterodyning sound engine. [FDL P/T only]

3e: Conversion of pitch antenna proximity to a quantized numeric (digital) value, and from this value driving sound engine. [Dewsters Digital Theremin P/T]

 

 

It is my view that only instruments complying with 1a qualify for possible inclusion in the theremin ‘family’ – that instruments where pitch ‘data’ is derived from any other method (such as resistance) do not qualify.. Forks which make noises using the conductive path from the hand, via food, to the mouth, for example, do not qualify! ;-)

 

My ‘pedantic’ self would declare that 1b and 1d are required for a “true” theremin – but I am not my pedantic self anymore!

 

Any instrument where 2a applies is, IMO, not a theremin.

 

I feel that all methods of operation / sound generation in 3 are “acceptable” – but that (being pedantic again) 3e is only acceptable if quantization is below perception.

 

And to answer your question:

 

The moog 91 series are not just VC synthesizers, they fall in my category 3c (catagory 3d does not, to my knowledge, exist in the market yet - I have, I think, the only prototype of such an instrument), and are therefore theremins – as is the E-Vox.. When used as a theremin, they are theremins, when driven from an external controller (2a and 2b) they are not being used as theremins – if this is how one always used them, one could chop off the antennas, and they would no longer be theremins, they would be crude synthesizers!

 

Likewise, if one had an instrument which put out voltage or MIDI signals (as a result of proximity) but did not produce sound, I do not believe this would be a theremin – Only when connected to a sound engine (synthesizer) would the system become a theremin – neither part on its own would be a theremin.

 

I have chosen to make proximity sensing the primary criterion on which to qualify instruments as "theremin" or "non theremin" - If one chose to make heterodyning the primary criterion, then the 91 series would not be in the theremin family. but the odes martenot would be a theremin.

 

If one was to declare that only instruments conforming absolutely to the design principles given by Lev Termen, this would be 1b, 1d, and 3a - the 91 series and E-Pro (and many other) theremins would not qualify.. If one was restricted to the same (tube) construction, there would be very few theremins in the world! ;-)

 

Fred

Fred posted:

Aha! Thank you Fred. I found a way to make it even cruder. :-) My very large screwdriver now sports a natty piece of heat-shrink tubing to act as a dielectric so that I can put my finger very close to the shaft without touching it and obtain a slightly lower note than when I actually touch it.

 

Fred wrote: "I don't like the fact, but it is a fact - the word "theremin" is generally used for anything where pitch is changed as a function of proximity."

It has been my experience in the last few years that the word "theremin" applies to anything capable of producing a sound reminiscent of the spooky sound FX from vintage horror and SciFi films. For many people the word "theremin" does not refer to how a sound is made, but rather to the sound itself.

In other words, it's a theremin if it sounds like a theremin.

The problem with this is that what sounds like a theremin to someone who knows little about the instrument may not sound at all like a theremin to an expert.

Unfortunately, everyone is an expert - even those who don't know their arses from their elbows.

"so that I can put my finger very close to the shaft without touching it and obtain a slightly lower note than when I actually touch it." - GordonC

LOL ! - Yes, that works.. great for trill effects.. What with an egg beater in one hand to give tremelo on the volume antenna, and a screwdriver in the other, and the TM - I look forward to seeing you next show! ;-)

Fred.

Fred, keep your fingers crossed. I have a rehearsal in a couple of weeks and if it goes well my next public performance may just include something a bit more spectacular than a screwdriver and a coffee frother. ;-)

Any possibility that we could actually SEE you perform some of these musical operations? Your videos are entertaining but unlike theremin performance videos we learn nothing from them about your setup, peripherals and/or techniques.