Removing instruments fromk backing tracks - Crazy technical idea floating...

Uhhh ok, but not really....

I see that 20,000 people have downloaded my stuff illegally over 100's of sharing websites. If I COULD HAVE SOLD ANY OF THESE ILLEGAL DOWNLOADS FOR JUST ONE DOLLAR, I would have made $20,000.

One dollar is not much right? Still, people find it too much. That 20,000, I could surely use it now since like EVERYONE else seems to have a hard time making ends meet. I should just get used to the fact that i'll never "make" it with my music, so I don't get too pissed off! 

"If I COULD HAVE SOLD ANY OF THESE ILLEGAL DOWNLOADS FOR JUST ONE DOLLAR, I would have made $20,000."  - Amethyste

Perhaps you could try selling a download version of your album for $1?

From what I've read (e.g. Jennifer Trynin's "Everything I'm Cracked Up to Be") performers with huge talent & potential end up pretty much giving their first albums to the record companies in exchange for the fame that it might net them.  If they have staying power they may eventually parlay that fame into a money making music business.  It seems like a pretty tough row to hoe.

Don't you think that I've done my part with 20,000 free downloads?

Amey - Is your album/s on sale somewhere? Can people buy it? How much does a legal download cost?

I am just wondering how many of the (20,000) people who downloaded your album as a freebie were aware of a legal means of obtaining it - many people download albums from artists they are not "sure" of, just to evaluate the music - one cannot know how many of these downloads are retained once the downloader has listened to the album.

And yes - there are (many) people who wont pay a penny if they can get something free by stealing it without risk - but there are also many who will pay what THEY feel is a fair price.

This all goes back to one of the problems discussed in this thread - The problem of "buying blind" without having a chance of listening to the "product" before handing over the money being a big one - If I had to pay even £1 for every album I had listened to and then rejected, I would not have been able to afford to buy the albums I liked, bought and kept!

At the end of the day, you probably cannot stop illegal stealing of your work - Perhaps if you were with a major label like Sony, they would do the legal work to prevent (or reduce) this theft - but you would pay for it by the tiny revenues they give the artists.

As I see it, getting worked up about the $20,000 you have "lost" had you recieved $1 per download, is wasted energy - the numbers are a fiction - If these downloaders had been forced to pay $1 per download, probably less than 1/10th of them would have downloaded your album.. I know people who have their PC's streaming data continuously from "sharing" sites - grabbing gigs of audio, film, software which they pack onto terrabyte drives - They are quite sick individuals - cleptomaniacs - It would take them a lifetime to go through the stuff they have already downloaded, let they download more..

Sadly, I know many of these people - mostly they are an "IT Crowd" from the days when I was a programmer - they work in large IT establisments, and have a home PC setup with a bank of servers running flat out.. One of these friends visited a few weeks ago and saw my children playing their Nintendo DS games - a few days later I recieved a 1TB drive in the post from him, and when I phoned him he told me that this drive contained every DS game that had ever been published, told me where I could obtain a card which adapted the DS to accept SD memory cards, and how to download the games onto this.... He had just downloaded this stuff as part of his crazy obsession - he never had kids or a DS! - I sent the drive back (a real bother having to pay the postage!) My kids play enough damn games, and id rather pay and have the ability to vet what they get than have some bloody dongle and the possibility of the kids downloading crap as they get older.

You may have "lost" $2000 (even this much is highly unlikely I think) - Best to see this as publicity costs and not get bitter about it.. Money like this is just "Monopoly" money - it never had any reality, and thinking about how you could have spent this money will only damage you and your art, IMO.

Fred.

I was talking in best case scenario. I know most people wouldn't pay for my music. The thing is, people have no idea how much it takes to make an album. Allthe gear, the time, the engineer to mix and master, printing, advertizing... it amounts to more than I can make with it. I do because I love it and it is a "fun" Outlet, but it would be nice if people could actually think with their head a little bit before "stealing". I am not agreeing that "it is Monopoly Money". It's a product and people who want a product should be willing to pay for it. Since when does a Store let you go grocery shopping first and pay later? Never.

My music can be "previewed" before buying, it's not a "cold purchase" by any means. I enjoy being an Indie Artist, but the illegal downloads are a bane to my creativity.

I think Fred says "monopoly money" because it doesn't make much sense to count illegal downloads as lost money, as there is just no money to pay for those downloads.

When the RIAA sued LimeWire (a P2P program) for copyright infringement, they calculated that they had "lost" $75 trillion (!), since that was (an estimation of) the total price of the songs people had downloaded. But the US GDP is around 15 trillion... in fact, the whole world's GDP is around 60 trillion! There is no money in the whole world to pay for those downloads, so it's absurd to say that the RIAA lost that money.

In reality, illegal downloads are economically beneficial to artists, especially to indie ones. 20K people downloaded your music illegally and probably some of them liked it and paid for it later (yes, people do this); or linked/recommended it to someone who paid for it. On the other hand, if it were impossible to download music illegally, those 20K people probably wouldn't know your music at all. They would be downloading legally free music or listening to the radio.

In the software world, we know this very well - it is widely believed (although they won't admit it, of course) that Microsoft achieved their de facto monopoly in operating systems due to being easily piratable. In public, they complained about piracy; in practice, they always shipped their systems with easy-to-circumvent anti-piracy measures, and not because their programmers were sloppy! They just knew that that way, their system would spread much more and win over the competition.

AlKhwarizmi: When the RIAA sued LimeWire (a P2P program) for copyright infringement, they calculated that they had "lost" $75 trillion (!), since that was (an estimation of) the total price of the songs people had downloaded. 

That $75,000,000,000.00 figure seems to have been an intimidation tactic and it was thrown out. However, LimeWire (which has since gone out of business) settled out-of-court with 13 record labels for a total of $105,000,000.00

"Since when does a Store let you go grocery shopping first and pay later?"  - Amethyste

Stores don't generally have products one can copy perfectly with zero effort.  One copy or a million, they don't cost anything to make.  There are no manufacturing facilities, supply chains, continuing engineering, shipping, packaging, warranties, etc. to deal with.  This works both ways of course.

Big businesses are like mobs running the world - if they want special laws to protect their unsustainable business models, they'll get them.  Their arguments shouldn't be examined too closely for logic (copying = stealing, etc.).  Small business people have to take the situation at hand and somehow make it work for them.  A big part of establishing and running a business is determining how to make a profit given the market you have work in - surely you knew about file sharing before you got into the downloadable music business?  If so, why the bitterness?

And like Fred says, many of the downloads are probably just hoarders who don't even listen to it after they download it.  Which is actually kind of disappointing if you think about it too much.

Why I am bitter? Why are you even asking? It's easy to say things like that when you are not the one constantly fighting against this every day. When I write a file sharing site asking them to take the link down, they want me to prove to them that I am the copyright owner of the music in order for them to oblige with my request. I have to prove them who I am in order for them to stop doing something that is illegal. Now that's effed up. That is just ONE thing that I am bitter about.

you know, lets just drop this actually. It's not going anywhere obviously. You all can return to your normal daily programming of piracy and copyright infringement :)

"you know, lets just drop this actually. It's not going anywhere obviously. You all can return to your normal daily programming of piracy and copyright infringement :)" - Amey

Amey, you have an unfortunate habit of taking your angst out on your friends!

I think we all agree that it is "effed up" and I think we all agree that the situation is unjust, particularly to "small" struggling artists like yourself.. When we make comments about "bitterness" it is not saying "you have no reason to be bitter" - what I think we are saying (or certainly this is what I am trying to convey) is that bitterness doesnt achieve anything - it doesnt "get at" those who are stealing your work - all it does is harms YOU!

Its a tough world, as you know - Its even tougher (IMO) if you cling to notions of "justice" and "fairness" and get bitter when life, or other people arent fair with you.. Do what you can without exhausting yourself, to defend your rights - but it looks to me like you are in danger of letting the "wrongness" of what people are doing to you become your primary focus - If you let this happen, if you allow the anger and bitterness to build up, you and your music will be in danger - and you may lose far more than anyone could ever steal from you.

Yes - you have reason to be "bitter" - But just because you have reason, doesnt mean that bitterness or frustration or anger is good for you - it isnt! Keep your focus on your music, and I believe that you will "make it" - Lose your focus and get swallowed up yith resentment and bitterness, and you certainly wont get anywhere with your music or anything else in life!

Take care of your soul first, Amey - Everything else is just trivia!

Fred.