Subscope Theremin

Posted: 1/14/2013 4:57:20 PM
dewster

From: Northern NJ, USA

Joined: 2/17/2012

"But even with the most linear theremin theoretically possible, perfect linearity CANNOT ever be obtained - this is a fact of physics..."  - FredM

I agree that, particularly in the far field, perfect linearity is likely an impossibly elusive thing.  (Though one technique I've played around with in the Excel simulator is a simple offset so that the null point produces a low tone rather than 0 Hz, which seems to help low end linearity quite a bit at the expense of some range.  It can also vary the overall far and mid field bulk sensitivities.)

But I imagine that most Theremins noticeably cramp up in the near field, and engineering time would probably be well spent fixing that (subtracting a higher power term helps this in simulation).  I tend to shy away from the antenna on my prototype just because of this.

"if there are theremin "demons" or "spirits" or whatever undertaking these tasks, then I suppose perfect linearity is possible!  ;-)"

I felt a disturbance in the aether, is someone summoning the Antique Theremin Shaman?

Posted: 1/14/2013 10:43:34 PM
FredM

From: Eastleigh, Hampshire, U.K. ................................... Fred Mundell. ................................... Electronics Engineer. (Primarily Analogue) .. CV Synths 1974-1980 .. Theremin developer 2007 to present .. soon to be Developing / Trading as WaveCrafter.com . ...................................

Joined: 12/7/2007

"I agree that, particularly in the far field, perfect linearity is likely an impossibly elusive thing." - Dewster

First, I suppose, the word "perfect" needs to be looked at briefly - "perfection" is never obtainable - so I am talking about measurable error when I talk about "perfection" - or  error which impacts in any way on playability..

And here I think "elusive" is too weak a word. If one takes any given situation, and examines the capacitive "components" which influence linearity, it is (IMO) clear that a given instrument can only approach "perfect linearity" for one precise configuration - as in, all parameters which affect linearity (grounded objects, atmospherics - humidity, temperature, and anything which affects the dielectrics - AND the players body position WRT the theremin and other objects - to name just the most important) must be identical.

It is my view (based on slaving for perfection for years, and eventually going back to basics and looking at real world capacitive influences - things like the effect of the arm, angular capacitances to the antenna and ground etc) - that I was seeking unobtanium.

IMO, not only is "perfection" unobtainable in the real world, but linearity errors will always be at a level which will actually have SOME impact on playability.

This does not, IMO, mean that designing for best possible linearity is pointless - One can get damn good linearity, and perhaps inclusion of a user linearity adjustment control would go some way to correcting gross environment-induced linearity errors..

But some linearity errors will always be with us, "perfection" is a myth. And I believe that the "preview" feedback mechanism gives us the needed means to "manualy" correct for the minor linearity errors we cannot get rid of.

Fred.

ps - my interest in linearity was not originally with the theremin in mind.. my other business is in capacitive sensors for industrial application - There is a market for a long range sensor with ACTUAL linear output (as in, gives 10V at 1m, 9V at 90cm, 5V at 50cm, 1V at 10cm..) - There is more money in industry than from theremins - And I design custom sensors for clients..

There is no problem making short-range sensors for controlled applications / environments - I have made (well, actually designed - the client usually makes them - even the prototypes - as they tend to be tiny SMD units) capacitive joysticks and motor rotation decoders and compression sensors having a range up to 10cm and linear to better than 0.01mm..

But as soon as one introduces any "untargeted" capacitive "bulk" anywhere in the range of the sensor, the precise linearity is lost - Linearity correction is performed by applying computation (either analogue or digital) to the sensor output - This computation must work on rules which are based on its inputs.. If the input capacitances vary due to "unseen influences" which cannot be factored into the processing, well - the old term "Garbage in, Garbage out" applies.

With long range capacitive sensors (and theremins) there is just too much "garbage in" to get a "perfect" output. With theremins this is an inconvienience - but for a vehicle guidance system (for example), its a non-starter!

Posted: 5/22/2013 8:50:37 AM
All Souls Night

Joined: 5/22/2012

"What is it about the Subscope theremin that leads you to conclude that it is a notch higher than the Etherwave on the theremin scale? Just curious."

I just got a Subscope theremin with pitch preview a few months ago and I LOVE IT. The sound is beautiful, like a bell on setting #2 or If you use the setting #3 you can get a more trumpet or string like sound which is good for cutting across thicker textures in orchestration. The linearity is beautiful. The pitch preview is a godsend and adjustable to your preferences as to when you hear it (the closer you get to the volume antenna the louder it gets- the exact opposite of the regular volume) and how loud it is and when it drops out -- you can get a little window of silence if you want before the regular volume starts in. Also the snappiness of the volume antenna is adjustable.

When it first came, some components were defective (probably knocked loose in transit) and it made for a wild ride, but they got replaced by Charlie Hobbs with Dominik's blessing and now it works beautifully and consistently. A real pleasure to play and hear.

The amp does make a difference and am looking to upgrade to something that will sound better and also get a reverb pedal. Right now for gig travel I am using a behringer practice amp (15 w) because I can transport it more easily, but it sounds like crap with not a lot of overtones-- but it is small. I have a FENDER ACOUSTASONIC AMP and the sound is better, but it is too big and unwieldy to haul without a travel case. Money, money, money.

The etherwave standard with Thierry's magic module is a huge improvement, with both sound and linearity, but I wish it had pitch preview as well. The lower octaves on the etherwave are lovely now, but the upper and mid range has that "bees in a glass" sound that I just cannot get rid of no matter how I set the wave forms.

I am just coming up on my first year of playing the theremin, although I am a professional singer and musician. So I am a newbie for sure. Since I have been playing the Subscope my playing has improved dramatically, although I still have a long way to go for sure. I go back and forth between the two theremins, but that pitch preview is awfully nice and the Subscope is pleasing to my ear - like a magic flute. Domnik has been lovely to deal with and I would recommend a Subscope in a NY minute.

Thanks Amethyste, for the recommendation and getting to hear you play yours.

Posted: 5/22/2013 7:34:12 PM
mollydad

From: Nashville, TN, USA

Joined: 12/22/2011

@ All Souls Night:  I just noticed that today is your one year anniversary of joining ThereminWorld.  Happy Anniversary!  You mentioned that you can't get away from the bees in a jar sound on your ESPE01 Etherwave...I also don't like those settings, but I have found that when I set my EWplus with the ESPE01 mod waveform setting to about 2:30, and the far right brightness knob to about 3:30, it produces a very nice flute like tone...which is about the only setting I like and use right now....although I don't feel too bad about this, since I remember reading that Clara Rockmore also only used one of her tone settings (not that I am now or ever will be on a par with Clara as a player).....

I would like to try a SubScope sometime, but it's not in my budget for now...:-(

Posted: 5/22/2013 9:45:19 PM
All Souls Night

Joined: 5/22/2012

 "but I have found that when I set my EWplus with the ESPE01 mod waveform setting to about 2:30, and the far right brightness knob to about 3:30, it produces a very nice flute like tone"

 

Thanks Mollydad, will try that! Wow, did that year go fast! I actually got to borrow a friend's old Big briar etherwave and start learning to play around the middle of June.

The Pegna I ordered a year ago never came. Many promises from Mattia, but no cattle. Amtrhyste has been waiting for 2 years!

Posted: 5/22/2013 10:11:36 PM
Jim Mattjhews

From: Kaufman, TX

Joined: 4/2/2013

 

The Pegna I ordered a year ago never came. Many promises from Mattia, but no cattle. Amtrhyste has been waiting for 2 years!

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Did you send a payment? If you did, was it through PayPal?

 

Posted: 5/23/2013 1:58:18 AM
Chobbs

From: Brooklyn,NY

Joined: 12/1/2009

Yikes guys!

Posted: 5/23/2013 3:16:49 AM
All Souls Night

Joined: 5/22/2012

 

The Pegna I ordered a year ago never came. Many promises from Mattia, but no cattle. Amtrhyste has been waiting for 2 years!

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Did you send a payment? If you did, was it through PayPal?

 

No, Mattia said he was so embarrassed that it was taking so long to get it to me, to just send the payment after the Pegna arrived. I am still waiting...

We are even friends on facebook! Nice guy, but I guess he doesn't want to sell his Pegna theremins. Anyone actually own one?

 

Posted: 5/23/2013 3:18:27 AM
Amethyste

From: In between the Pitch and Volume hand ~ New England

Joined: 12/17/2010

.... I can hear crickets singing ....

Posted: 5/23/2013 3:21:40 PM
Chobbs

From: Brooklyn,NY

Joined: 12/1/2009

Okay, now  I totally feel bad for the guy.   Building theremins is miserable work.

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