Greetings, gots an idea maybe

Like it says, Greetings.  I stumbled onto the Theremin and find it fascinating that it can sound like so many things.  I've been playing for awhile with Arduino and I have an IMU which fuses gyro, accel, magnetometer and gives pretty solid orientation in X,Y,Z.  I kept playing with Arduino and coming up with new ways to display X,Y,Z and finally started playing with Processing 2.0 .  Somewhere in there I found the Theremino.com site which lead here. 

What I keep thinking is it would be cool to use the output from one or two IMU's connected to a PC by USB to control the Theremino_Theremin_V5.5 software.  The problem I have is the Theremino English documentation is kinda hard to understand.  I read it and sometimes I think I don't actually need the "Master" hardware, I just need an output format that the V5.5 software will like and see.  They even mention Processing as something the software can connect to, but I can't figure out what I need to know or understand to get there.  My IMU will connect to the processing software, I just need a way to send some kind of output to the Theremino_Theremin program.

So, anyway, Greetings and Thanks for any input on this.

Harry 

Hello IMUman..

Not sure anyone here can help you - perhaps someone can..

But it looks to me like theremino.com has absolutely nothing to do with theremins - The theremin is a capacitive musical instrument which really, in its present state, cannot "sound like so many things" - and whilst the number of tonal qualities is IMO needlessly small in present instruments, it will never compete against even a cheap Yamaha keyboard in terms of the "number of things" it can sound like.

I do think there could be something of a problem with misrepresentation if the name "theremin" is now going to be used for PC I/O devices - which is what theremino.com is about and nothing at all to do with what theremins are about.

But good luck with your search.

Fred.

They call their software Theremino_Theremin.  They have a design for a Theremin that uses capacitive touch sensors connected to two antennae.  The master connects to the PC and their software will recognize it.  I'm hoping somebody has experience with that software and can help me figure out how to replace their hardware with my IMU.  I need a way for that software to recognize the USB port and read it.  If I could do that, then I might use one axis for pitch and another for volume. 

This is from their documentation:

This application is inspired by the musical instrument invented by Leon Theremin, called the Theremin, the first electronic musical instrument, the father of all synthesizers.

This software works even without hardware, you can download and try out its sounds. You can send commands and notes from the software, let it play with small programs in Theremino Script, connect

sensors,

MIDI, to MaxMsp or any music system via Slot, UDP and OSC.

The 'extreme efficiency of the current software, makes it possible to generate sounds with minimal

hardware. A master module and two

CapSensor (or just one), are sufficient, for a total of about 60 Euro.

You can also start with a single CapSensor,

spending less than 40 Euro, and then add modules, sensors and

capacitive buttons, to grow your own instrument without limits.

This software is also a test on how fast is becoming VBnet. The samples are generated one by one with

mathematical calculations in floating point at 44kHz stereo and are applied to all the normal effects of a synth

OSCILLATORS, ADSR, FILTERS, LFO, and ECHO CHORUS. The result is a true polyphonic synthesizer,

but with a very low CPU consumption, practically almost zero, so that on a decent PC, you can run many

Theremin, playing simultaneously.

I didn't mean to offend any purists

Hello Harry,

No offence taken - all I did was search for theremino.com and found a site which, after translation, only talked about IO for PCs and nothing about theremins.

Perhaps you could give us a link to what you are talking about to avoid this confusion - its really difficult to navigate or search for  sites in a different langage - or at least it is for me!

Fred.

There may well be folks who know the project you are talking about - but I have not seen it and couldnt find it from the data you gave... If its input you want from those with expierience of the project, thats fine - what you posted is probably sufficient ... But if its discusion or sharing to include those (like me) who have never come across this particular project, then a little more help finding it  would be appreciated.

Thank You FredM, first few posts can be awkward trying to get it through the keyboard.  Here's a link to the one page that shows their Theremin.

http://www.theremino.com/en/blog/multimedia/

I can output PWM on 3 channels from my device or I can send regular serial.  After some more reading of translated Italian which doesn't always translate, I'm thinking I might be able to send PWM of X,Y,Z to the signal lines on the Theremino Master. 

Here's a video of the software and their hardware:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSY3HAv4HVE

Ok, Thanks Harry - That video is quite impressive - I can see why you are interested..

Some things beg questions - the hand movement for pitch (sensing range) was tiny, sepite the software showing max distance of 50cm - it looked far more like perhaps 20cm - Also, there was a portamento setting, and I wonder if there was quantization of the pitch signal and portamento gave this whatever theremin quality the lead sound had..

But I think you rightly highlight the importance of the software in your first post - It looks to me like thats where everything of musical importance is happening.

I will say that I am quite surprised and impressed by what I have seen - but sorry - am way out of my depth and cant help you in any way.

Fred.

"Out of my depth"  That's the story of my life, never enough expertise to really get my ideas out.  Hey, I've tried not to let that stop me since the first time I sat at a mainframe terminal and had no idea what I was doing. 

After some more basic research, I see that whatever instrument I'm trying to hack together, it will not be a true Theremin.  There are lots of related instruments and as soon as I try to change the style of control, I have departed and it becomes something else.  That's ok with me, it's sound and intuitive interface that attracted me.  I'll keep researching and trying and hopefully a bulb will turn on.

"Wild Honey" - You dont need a theremin to generate that sound - just a synth with portamento, and two keys ;-)

From the first posting I get the idea that you are looking at a controller - a player interface - based on the IMU.. Gyro, Accel etc .. somithing like using a Wii controller - tilt etc controlling the sounds, and exploring using the theremino software -

It looks to me like the theremino takes PWM from the capsense board into the controller board which interfaces to the PC - so just guessing that if you could get PWM of the same type from your IMU, you could simply interface via the theremino controller board.. (please dont take my word for this - I have only skimmed the badly translated theremino site, and not examined any of the source code or schematics)

"out of my depth" is also the story of my life - but for everything except maths, if I am really interested and willing to invest enough time, I can eventually manage.. so can you!

But it comes down to whether its worth doing - Your idea (if the above is what you are thinking) has been done before (loads of R+D has been devoted to alternative controllers for music) and results generally have been far from spectacular.. Mostly though, I think this is because such controllers have tried to incorporate pitch - my expierience is that pitch controll cannot be combined with any other function if one actually wants to play the instrument - one needs your dominant hand (at least) to be exclusively devoted to pitch only - and the actions of the other hand must be reasonably simple.. Its not down to the technology so much as down to our fairly limited human abilities -

But I could be wrong - I can play theremin pitch quite well, and I can control volume quite well - but ask me to do both at the same time and everything falls over! - add to this any other action by either hand (like X/Y movements on the volume hand, to control timbre) and I can only play "experimental" music, I have no chance playing "Happy Birthday! LOL ;-)

I suspect that thereminists who can play tunes and coordinate volume may manage X/Y movements for timbres / formants - and they may manage some tilt / accel control - but I dont think it likely that anyone will manage precision pitch if pitch is combined with any other function.

Fred.

I hear you Fred, Thanks.  Your impression of the Master on the Theremino is what I thought too.  I think it might be fun to play around with and see where it takes me and $28.00 or so isn't a huge gamble.  I could just hook up one axis if it's too confusing.

Reading about Leon Theremin, I found something about a sound machine that was built for dancers and nobody could control it, LOL.

Your comment on the math(s) hit home too.  I heard of linear algebra and matrices before I started playing with the IMU and I got a full course, including quaternions and going back and forth between before I had a working unit.    

I plan on building Thierry's simple Theremin as well, just to have and play.

I should know how this works in a week or so. 

The info on Master says it can handle DIGIN on the 6 inputs.  I can even see another way to get signals in which is to use an RC transmitter and use the sticks.  This could end up being more fun than I was expecting.