Moog Theremini!

I certainly wont be buying one!

Everything it can do that I might want to use it for I can do far better and far more simply with a keyboard and rack of synths I already have.. One analogue synth is all you need..

If I want a theremin in a composition, ill use a theremin - If I wanted to fake a theremin (because I aint good enough to play one) id use a synth with portamento.. Or if I really wanted on-key theremin sound from a real theremin, get a real thereminist to play it, or play it myself and use an auto-tune on my DAW which I could precisely adjust to keep the qualities that make the theremin a theremin.

And I am probably more shocked by the fact that a great upcoming precision thereminist is even thinking that the theremini might be of use to her than I was when I saw that the theremini was from Moog!  ;-)

But I am wondering how many EW's will be sold by folks wanting to buy a theremini - Think ill save my money - could be a market in buying old EWs and converting them to high end theremini clones ;-)

(only joking BTW ;-)

Fred.

Personally, I think the theremini is an even stupider extention of the already stupid theremin concept - Yeah, burn me at the stake! LOL.. But the idea of making monophonic sounds whose pitch and volume are controlled by non-tactile waving of ones arms about is fundamentally crazy!

Then to go and modify it so one gets it to perform like a keyboard, therebye losing the only thing the theremin has going for it - FREEDOM.. NUTS! Completely bonkers IMO!! - Almost in the same league as the musical toothpick!

It is the freedom, and the expression a good thereminist can generate by exploiting this freedom, which is the ONLY thing that makes the theremin worth "saving" IMO.

Hey! Just had a Great idea!!!! - A musical toothpick with pitch correction!!! ;-)

*** All my above comments are based on the fact that I can play the keyboard a bit.. I suppose that if one cannot play the keyboard at all, then the theremini might be useful in its own right or as a synth interface

"With the niceness knob full on, there's going to be nothing but notes that play nicely with one another - 100% nice, and turning it down will reduce the ratio of consonant to dissonant notes thereby reducing the niceness, for want of a better term, of the piece." - GordonC

NO! LOL ;-)

IMO, "Niceness" has nothing to do with how close notes are to ETS (or other) intervals! .. One can get "nice" by being "on key" and one can get "nice" by not having any "reference intervals" and just creating sounds which somehow mix together with "niceness"..

If one is listening to music based on "reference" intervals, then IMO almost all increase in "dissonance" tilts the music towards "not nice"..

I listened to your crystal-making piece (sorry - cant remember its name) and love it - but IMO its entirely different to most of your other stuff which I also love - the other stuff was (to me) much more difficult to get into at first - it took a few listenings before the structure and sounds were "decoded" and after that I could hear new variations and complexities in this at each listening... The "crystal piece" was entirely different - much easier to get into, much "nicer" at first listening - Oh, I enjoyed the other pieces on first listening - but I enjoy them more with each subsequent listening.

Nothing in any of your pieces ever 'grated' or irritated in any way.. However, I think that if you were to put a piece together which was a mix of the two - a piece with a ETS tuned track and a seperate different track of the former type, I would find it painful..

I dont know what makes some dissonance enjoyable, and other dissonance painful - But I think that whatever it is that differentiates this, its probably extremely complex.. I think that you (and artists like you) are able, probably subconciously, to craft this in real time and implement it without really knowing what you are doing.. Its a skill few people possess, and probably defies analysis -

(IMO)  Klaus Schuze can sit on a carpet twiddling knobs on a synth rack and produce what I hear as wonderful music, someone else can take the same gear and make the same moves but their music is crap - and the difference probably comes down to the tiniest of differences in the the levels set on the synth, or the tiniest change in delay length or filter frequency or whatever.. And there are artists who can take a load of industrial noises without any kind of "reference" intervals, and mix these into interesting and sometimes enjoyable music - and others who, to my ears, just produce a load of industrial noise..

No instrument less complex than the human brain can compete, and I think this is particularly true for the sort of music you make.. One could probably get an android to do a perfect rendition of "the Swan", and repeat this performance ad nauseum.. But not even a quantum computer interfaced to the most awesome synth ever built could create stuff that wouldnt eventually bore me I think.. Its only when processed by a musically creative person that I think music is created.. I am not yet bored with any of your compositions - the one I am more inclined to get bored with though is probably your latest pitch-corrected one!

I really dont think real-time pitch correction, no matter how one adjusts it, is going to improve what you do... But I could be wrong - In real time your subconcious may be able to use the consonant and dissonant elements and mix these in ways that are great...

but "niceness knob" is just HORRIBLE! - And worse, its a bit like admitting that one needs to be able to play tunes like "the Swan" and that the only "nice" music is music that conforms to strict pitch intervals.. That the closer to 100% the knob is set, the "nicer" the music will be! - In which case, may as well leave it at 100% or use a keyboard!

;-)

Fred.

I can just see it.. they get rid of the pitch correction knob and set this at fixed 100%, and change this knob to portamento! - Musically (for non thereminists), that would probably make more sense!

What? Are you saying this isn't real???

(I do, by the way, agree that the auto tuned pieces are rather pleasant but lacking in dramatic tension. That's why I'm releasing them separate to my usual album releases, as part of a double EP set - the other one is mostly non-theremin and the polar opposite to the auto tuned EP in many ways.)

Talent simulator!!!

LOL ;-) Where do you find these things, Gordon !?

A question:  If all of the bells and whistles are turned off, does the Theremini have a true theremin mode....two RF oscillators "beating" against each other to make a sound?

A pet peeve:  Pitch correction...visual tuner...32 wavetable patches.....but no pitch preview?  What do theremin makers have against making an instrument with this simple and important feature?

"A question:  If all of the bells and whistles are turned off, does the Theremini have a true theremin mode....two RF oscillators "beating" against each other to make a sound?" - Thereminless

My understanding is no.

"A pet peeve:  Pitch correction...visual tuner...32 wavetable patches.....but no pitch preview?  What do theremin makers have against making an instrument with this simple and important feature?"

I have a feeling professional level Thereminists aren't the primary target group for this product.  Or (I am not a mind reader but) maybe they think the visual tuner is good enough to replace pitch preview?

WEll, that will not help me at all: Since I do not read music, it is no help to me if I am suppose to start on a C or a G?

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"A pet peeve:  Pitch correction...visual tuner...32 wavetable patches.....but no pitch preview?  What do theremin makers have against making an instrument with this simple and important feature?"

I have a feeling professional level Thereminists aren't the primary target group for this product.  Or (I am not a mind reader but) maybe they think the visual tuner is good enough to replace pitch preview?

"I certainly wont be buying one!"  - FredM

I certainly won't buy one sight unseen.  If it passes the smell test at the local Guitar Center or whatever I may get one mainly for research purposes (I'm somewhat curious as to the inductors used, oscillator topology & factory adjustments, heterodyning, linearity, sensitivity, temperature dependence, ESD, processor, DAC, etc.).  If I can justify keeping it, it will likely be more as a musical novelty item.  This is the same reasoning I used to get our EWS.

"WEll, that will not help me at all: Since I do not read music, it is no help to me if I am suppose to start on a C or a G?"  - Amethyste

Yeah, I don't think these "letter note +/-" tuners are the most intuitive for real-time player interactive use.  Even if you do read music.

Yeah - would be interesting to reverse engineer - particularly the front end..

But I dont think there will be any big surprises - we know the pitch sensor employs heterodyning, so the "data carrier" is likely to be period or divided period (perhaps frequency shifted - as in, null point not actually 0 beat)

And we know the voice is a digital Animoog engine - wont be able to get any data from that bit of the circuit.. Likewise, the pitch correction etc will be inside the processor, so little  / no data available even if you have 'scopes and analysers strapped to it..

The only stuff we will get more understanding on is probably stuff we can analyse without opening the instrument - Sensitivity, linearity, latency, thermal stability - and then, once these are established (and long before the warranty expires ;-) take a zapper to the antennas and see if the HBM ESD discharge kills it .. I say LONG before the warranty expires, because it can easily take months for ESD invoked problems appear.

"WEll, that will not help me at all: Since I do not read music, it is no help to me if I am suppose to start on a C or a G?"  - Amethyste

"Yeah, I don't think these "letter note +/-" tuners are the most intuitive for real-time player interactive use.  Even if you do read music." - Dewster

I agree - little use to anyone, particularly those in the target group, I think.. (the lack of) Pitch preview is another indicator that they care nothing about those who really want a good playable theremin.. Give "features" which look cool to the masses, but are, in reality, worthless or unimportant - but leave out "uncool" or "zero gimmic" features which almost every person who has ever tried to REALLY play a theremin wants and needs - Leave out the stuff which ignorant  people dont know they need (but REALLY do), give stuff ignorant people are easily fooled into believing they need (but really dont) ... Thats the Moog Theremini! (or at least a big aspect of it)

Must admit, the more I look at this toy, the more I swing back to my original assessment - I think it could (easily) and should have been what everyone has been waiting for - It could have catered for the whole spectrum of thereminist and general (larger) market with just a little bit extra, and the tiniest of additional cost.. A proper loop antenna, preview, and one standard heterodyning (direct, low latency) analogue voice*, in addition to whats there (assuming whats there is a good "core" - and this is a big unconfirmed assumption) would have given all of us (except perhaps developers, LOL ;-) everything wanted and needed.

Fred.

*If the Animoog voice is ok, and has low latency, there may not be a "need" for a heterodyning voice - its the only suggested addition which could substantially increase the cost - The other things in this list (loop and preview) would only have added perhaps $5 to the manufacturing cost at most.

i think we need to wait and see inside one, and what sort of processor etc. Question: would a raspberry pi have the processing power to do the necessary audio synthesis etc? Just wondering. 

Here's another question - how much will it reduce etherwave sales? Probably this is why it won't have a heterodyne voice.