Moog Theremini!

Hi Dewster,

Back in the early days, the synthesiser was a niche interest and the only ones really exploring and using it were experimentalists, sound-effects (film studios) and the like - it wasn' really available or of use to 'normal' folks or 'normal' musicians - Because of its huge potential, the user interface was complex, and they were mostly keyboard-less.

Bob Moog's pioneering work centered IMO on the interface - He provided a standard and familiar input devices (keyboard) and simplified the synthesizer, making it accessible to the public.

I wonder if some wanna-be Bob at Moog Music thought they could do the same for the theremin? If so, they haven't looked at the history - The history is that, in developing the synthesizer (leading to the Mini Moog) Bob consulted intensively with musicians who were using the synthesizers of the time .. It was THEM who he answered to, and them he took advice from.. Bob never went out and looked at what he could make that would appeal to masses of synthesis ignorami  to try to bring out an instrument to appeal to them.

IMO, the lack of consultation with those who know and really play theremins, and the focus / market they have targeted, makes any likely-hood of them designing something appealing to the theremin community almost zero.

For me, the question is this - What might have happened to the analogue synthesiser if Bob had not consulted with synthesists and had instead of producing the Mini Moog produced something that appealed to the "masses" but was of little use to musicians?

I think its possible that such a scenario could have killed the analogue synthesis revolution at birth (just as cheap crap digital synths stalled the revolution for years - folks selling their analogue and buying digital and relying on the preset sounds because they were impossible to program) . I fear that the theremini could impact adversely on interest and appreciation for all theremins, but particularly that it could throw a massive spanner in the works for digital theremins, right at the critical point where people like you are on the verge of starting this revolution.

So I personally dont think "disparaging" is unjustified in any way! The theremini DOES represent a major threat to any positive feelings folks have about theremins, and DOES threaten the advancement of theremins, and developers (both analogue and digital) have good reason to fear the lowering of the bar by Moog - Because Moog had always been the standard we tried to attain or better.

Fred.

"I fear that the theremini could impact adversely on interest and appreciation for all theremins, but particularly that it could throw a massive spanner in the works for digital theremins..."  - FredM

I share that fear.  On the off chance anyone at Moog is reading this, here are three oscillators you might want to consider:

The above wouldn't require much in the way of redesign.  Stick a second inductor in series with the antenna and you'll double the voltage swing and increase the sensitivity.

The above is likely what I'll be using, the Theremin adapted Clapp.

The above is Livio's parallel tank Colpitts.

Pick one of the above.  Set the LC resonance higher than normal (2 to 3 MHz) to keep latency low.  Do offset heterodyning with period measurement to linearize.  Do something about ESD.  Fix the tedious and time consuming calibration procedure and let us tweak the results.  Give us at least some control over the synthesis engine via the UI.

I wonder if the glaring weaknesses of the Theremini are an attempt at product tiering and differentiation.  If Moog is planning on a higher end offering (Theremaxi?) then perhaps the Theremini needs to look kind of bad in comparison?

just had my first encounter of the other kind with that overdimensional suppository in the shop. yes, it arrived even in my country. imo: some wows but more ouches. all the above mentioned concernes are true on the first sight. so sad. but i still have more possibillitys with my "ew-superplus", so wtf.  finally, i left with a new loop pedal. 

btw.: did someone from the community enter the beta-test of the theremini ipad app ?

"with that overdimensional suppository " - Dani

ROFLMAO ;-)

Dani - you are even ruder than I dare to be !!! ;-)

A glimpse of the secret manufacturing facility where the therapositori is really made:

hihi fred,

luckily that device is locked! hopefully forever!! oh, rudness! that is sometimes my second name. but simply because i can't express my deep disapointment in english very well. but i also would do so in german. and i guess i'm not the first one with that silly idea. it's my nature. or too much hospitals. but since i share something like a "rockemoreesque" faith according to my ability to play stringed instruments anymore, i'm also happily stuck to the theremin, like she was. and monophone synths, like she wasn't. and miss rockmore was wealthy enough, i guess, to put up the finances for her own, customized instrument. how much did her instrument cost?... and one of my other names is patience. so, i can wait. even for a brand new, a digitaller theremin. so let's see/hear what's next ?

dani

dewster wrote:"...Theremini could have totally dominated everything else out there.  It's kind of depressing to see such a lack of imagination / engineering coming from Moog."  fits  my thoughts since the first video posted on yt from namm.

"and miss rockmore was wealthy enough, i guess, to put up the finances for her own, customized instrument. how much did her instrument cost?" - Dani

My understanding is that the Claramin was built more for love than for money - Lev was a suitor of Clara's, he proposed marriage and even offered to convert to Judaism - not sure if that included the ritual physical 'requirement' as well..

But he never scored - I believe Clara married someone quite wealthy, and was I believe not wanting for pennies anyway.. I should know the history, having read the book - but im a bit foggy about the details of Clara's life. Whatever -

"dewster wrote:"...Theremini could have totally dominated everything else out there.  It's kind of depressing to see such... " Dani added "fits  my thoughts since the first video posted on yt from namm."

From a players / thereminists / buyers perspective, disappointment is the only consequence of this failure to realize a good theremin in this product.

From the "world thereminization" perspective (a perspective I have always seen as a little OTT) its a disaster, with the potential to put far more people off the theremin than attract them to it.

But for theremin developers its perhaps not all bad.. Ok, those put off by buying the theremini probably wont buy any theremin again, so it will reduce the already small market... BUT, IF Moog had produced a great theremin, there would be no market at all for anything anyone else developed except for the extremely low end (already cluttered) or the really high end (expensive).. They would have mopped up the mid-low and the mid-high market.

As things stand, the mid market, mid-low and the mid-high market are still available, waiting for a worthy new theremin or two... But probably only if Moog dont manage to con too many into getting the thermini as their first "theremin".

Fred.

claramin :-) ...hey i'm peter pan looking for my netherwave!.....just saw robschwimmers video of  the bigelow rosen theremin. now thats a sound i like. but this goes totaly ot,again, and talking about music is like acting over painting or something like that.

Fired up the Theremini just now and tried the pitch calibration somewhat differently than I have in the past.  The only thing I changed was the "close to the antenna" hand position, which I performed approximately 5" away from the antenna.  This obviously rules out nearfield playing, but seems to linearize the mid 12" or so field quite a bit, with the far field still somewhat spread out.  It's not ideal, and the response is still noticeably sluggish, but it's a lot better.

The volume calibration delay time could easily be reduced from the current 3 seconds per position.  In fact the delay could be pretty much eliminated, as the right hand can press the button while the left is in position.  Also, I'd separate the pitch from the volume calibration routines (and of course provide tweaks for both) - they're really two entirely different things.

Interestingly, when you turn on the Theremin it starts making noise and responding to the antennas seemingly instantaneously, though it takes a couple of seconds for the regular screen to appear.

Also interesting is what seems to clearly be temperature based drift in the pitch response.  The Theremini operating parameters are obviously stored in a non-volatile manner, so you get to see how long-term changes in the environment affect things.  It's not exactly all over the place, but it's not rock solid either.  Kind of what I'd expect from a typical ferrite inductor and in the absence of a drift tracking local oscillator.

"but it's a lot better." - Dewster

Interesting..

Can you play a tune on it? If so, how many octaves could you tunefully cover if the piece is real slow?

"Can you play a tune on it? If so, how many octaves could you tunefully cover if the piece is real slow?"  - FredM

Since the sensitivity of the Theremini is adjustable via the explicit pitch limits, you could cram however many octaves you like in that 12" or so span.  Setting this to 3 octaves I can fairly easily play the Sound of Music theme (albeit very slowly and quite terribly as I don't really practice).

The pitch side response sluggishness is obvious when doing fast vibrato.  Wiggle your hand too fast and the amplitude of the vibrato clearly diminishes.