Moog Theremini!

Posted: 12/11/2014 3:20:20 AM
dewster

From: Northern NJ, USA

Joined: 2/17/2012

"If you could devise a way to measure latency precisely exactly rather than estimating it I would be eternally grateful."  - GordonC

The guys at Moog could probably tell you exactly.  But once it is reaches a certain value it almost doesn't matter what it is, because it's bad.  I measured a rise time of 0.1 second, -3dB of 2.6Hz.  Who knows where in the signal chain this is happening, or what order it is (1st, 2nd, etc.) but it's bad with a capital B. 

I'm not saying the low gestural bandwidth rules it out as a useful musical tool, but in this regard it is distinctly un-Thereminy and cannot be placed fully in that category.  I suppose that's my biggest gripe with the Theremini, for some it's a wolf running around in sheepskin (though others will likely not notice nor mind the low bandwidth).  To market it as a full Theremin is deceptive.

"The negative impact of the latency of the Moog THEREMINI will increase with the skill of the player. A beginner with little or no knowledge of theremins will probably not even notice the problem. Give the same instrument to an accomplished virtuoso and he or she will probably declare the thing unplayable (as several have already done)."  - coalport

This is pretty much what I would suspect.  Dabblers generally just slide all over the place, but precision players need to get to the note as quickly as possible.

Posted: 12/12/2014 12:35:46 AM
coalport

From: Canada

Joined: 8/1/2008

Thereminists are dependent upon instant audio feedback in order to (as Bob Moog himself put it) “trim” the pitch. If the audio feedback is delayed because of inherent latency, the instrument is useless to a serious precision player. IT’S JUST THAT SIMPLE!

Posted: 12/12/2014 3:52:01 PM
FredM

From: Eastleigh, Hampshire, U.K. ................................... Fred Mundell. ................................... Electronics Engineer. (Primarily Analogue) .. CV Synths 1974-1980 .. Theremin developer 2007 to present .. soon to be Developing / Trading as WaveCrafter.com . ...................................

Joined: 12/7/2007

"the instrument is useless to a serious precision player. IT’S JUST THAT SIMPLE!" - Coalport

Yeah, it certainly is that simple...

To me, the question that needs to be answered honestly is whether its useful to anyone who wants to play a THEREMIN - there are only a few "precision players" on the planet, and if it is only these people for whom the theremini is "utterly useless" this wouldn't be a problem.

And in my view, the theremini is utterly useless for everyone wanting to play a theremin, but its worse than useless - because it turns potential players into "Dabblers [who] generally just slide all over the place" - Its instant gratification, its a box that takes movement and turns these into "cool" sounds and sequences.

But its not a theremin -

If, in 2010 at the Royal Festival hall, there had been some theremini's for people to play with as well as my one-stick instruments, I am convinced that my instruments would have been mostly ignored.. The theremin takes a while before one gets any feeling of "mastery" over it... But you can get sounds from a theremini which give the feeling of "mastery" after a few minutes - people like this delusion of mastery.

" I suppose that's my biggest gripe with the Theremini, for some it's a wolf running around in sheepskin (though others will likely not notice nor mind the low bandwidth).  To market it as a full Theremin is deceptive." - Dewster

Yeah, this is my big gripe too - The marketing of this toy has been completely, knowingly dishonest - IMO whopping lies have been told.. And IMO there was never any reason for this - Those buying the things mostly dont give a damn that its not a theremin...  Going out of their way to emphasize its "theremin credentials" with misleading comments about heterodyning etc, while missing the one thing absolutely essential for an instrument to possibly be regarded as a theremin.... THAT was Moog's crime.

Fred.

Posted: 12/12/2014 11:30:24 PM
Jason

From: Hillsborough, NC (USA)

Joined: 2/13/2005

I can now confirm that Moog will have a public beta available soon for the Theremini firmware upgrade.  I've been testing a pre-release copy and have seen greatly improved linearity and latency.  I'll post some more details in a front-page article later tonight.  There are lots of bug fixes and new features too.

I like to think Lev would have enjoyed seeing the day when a theremin could be upgraded with new features via a patch.

Posted: 12/13/2014 12:24:14 AM
FredM

From: Eastleigh, Hampshire, U.K. ................................... Fred Mundell. ................................... Electronics Engineer. (Primarily Analogue) .. CV Synths 1974-1980 .. Theremin developer 2007 to present .. soon to be Developing / Trading as WaveCrafter.com . ...................................

Joined: 12/7/2007

Great - its good to know they are fixing something (latency) which they claimed never existed.. If the latency of 60 microseconds as claimed by their MD was truth, they wouldn't need to fix it.

But 0.1 seconds does need to be fixed! - it needs to be made at least 10x faster / more responsive.

Fred.

Posted: 12/14/2014 6:56:50 PM
Jason

From: Hillsborough, NC (USA)

Joined: 2/13/2005

The write-up is on the front page news feed now, for those of you who are following this thread via email notifications.

Posted: 12/16/2014 5:14:18 PM
Gary Honis

From: Sugarloaf, PA

Joined: 10/17/2014

I have been testing the new firmware and windows software editor for the Theremini. With the improvements, Moog has made the Theremini an advanced theremin instrument.  The naysayers were correct, it's not a "REAL" theremin, it is much more. 

A youtube video titled "Moog Theremini Tutorial with thereminist Lydia Kavina" was uploaded today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bakI0ITCqQ

Gary Honis

Posted: 12/16/2014 6:22:00 PM
robonil

From: santiago, chile

Joined: 3/17/2006

Hi, i've been testing as well this beta firmware, and it's made to fit for Thereminists, in "Theremin Mode" you can have it as a regular Theremin, one knob for Volume antenna and one knob for Pitch antenna, and you can select how many octaves do you want (for me like a dream come true) and you can select octaves up or down, If you can have this last one in a momentary pedal, you can use your Theremin like a string-theremin, playing normal notes or its "Harmonics"

Posted: 12/16/2014 7:27:38 PM
SapereAude

From: The Great White North

Joined: 8/11/2014

This is great news! It's nice to see a pro managing to play this unplayable instrument!

 

Posted: 12/16/2014 8:25:33 PM
dewster

From: Northern NJ, USA

Joined: 2/17/2012

This is great.  I buy a Theremini and end up doing a bunch of unintentional beta / unit testing.  It turns out to be something of a dog in the "real Theremin" department and upon hearing this many get their fee-fees hurt.  I hear rumors of firmware update, but with no update timeline - indeed no formal acknowledgement of the bugs themselves from Moog Inc. - sell it before the resale value drops too much.  Now they have firmware on the horizon that should have been in the damn thing in the first place and I have no Theremini to upgrade. 

For me this entire Theremini "experience" has been pretty horrible, and I'll think 10 times before buying another Moog product.

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