Moog Theremini!

...I wouldn't be surprised if the open.Theremin is more linear than the Theremini. 

the open.theremin IS really very linear. no joke. also the new V2- board. but not for even half the price of a theremini. next batch is ready in january. 

since i got a theremini too, but also without the beta tester privilege, i can tell that it is very very restrictiv to play, some impressiv basssounds, yes, but with some sort of "ah, heard that before"effect. a nice feature is on the other hand that one can tune sounds incredible low easily by that ipad editor. 

also: no wonder why lydia kavina waved so hard for a slight vibrato! goodness,it's sooooo slooow reacting. (must be because of the low voltage, i think?) might the new firmware bring real soon some improvements, as promised. but still: a very plasticfantastic fx sound..thing

"no wonder why lydia kavina waved so hard for a slight vibrato! goodness,it's sooooo slooow reacting. (must be because of the low voltage, i think?"  - xtheremin8

The Theremini and the open.Theremin both have low voltage swings at the antennas.  The sluggishness of the Theremini is almost certainly due to excessive digital filtering going on somewhere in the signal chain.  What you're experiencing is ~27Hz for the open.Theremin vs. ~2.6Hz for the Theremini (pre firmware upgrade - who knows if they fixed this).  A full order of magnitude down where it really makes a difference.

[EDIT] Since the Theremin isn't a percussive instrument, it can likely have fairly low gestural bandwidth without anyone noticing it during normal play.  2.6Hz is definitely too low.  27Hz might actually be OK, but it's still kind of low IMO.  250Hz might be a good target, as there wouldn't be much (if any) benefit in going above this.

dewster, do you think just fw can fix this?  you mentioned earlier, that a tiny extra capacitor could lift the swing somewhat,  but would some extra hardware need reprogramming the software then? meanwhile, i'm going to play around with some different plate ideas for the pitch side. experimental purposes. your "digital testsite" is brilliant for that. well... merry christmas to all and let's hope some goblins work hard on that ffw and tweak it till it pops. no socks on the chimney.

"dewster, do you think just fw can fix this?"  - xtheremin8

The bandwidth issue, yes, though it is entirely possible that the architecture of the firmware might make changes in this regard non-trivial.  For example (and just a wild guess) the low bandwidth might be an integral feature of how they implement the MIDI interface or connect the sense side to the synthesis side.  Or it could be as trivial as changing a constant in a header somewhere and recompiling.

"you mentioned earlier, that a tiny extra capacitor could lift the swing somewhat,  but would some extra hardware need reprogramming the software then?"

You could likely increase the voltage swing without changing the frequency and sensitivity much (I believe this is a Vackar oscillator, which the open.Theremin also employs - makes me wonder if Moog Inc. "copied" it from the open.Theremin?).  The Theremini seems capable of calibrating to a wide range of conditions.

For antennas, I'd try both a long whip and a plate and see which one gives better linearity.  Though they may be doing some math in there that confounds things.  The near calibration point profoundly affects linearity.

The new firmware is posted! 

http://www.moogmusic.com/downloads

@dewster: wish you still had yours!  as a fearless mostly mindless circuitbent beeing, i surely can't resist to unscrew it before warranty time is over. (thank you for all those pictures and scientific insights, most helpful.) and the display led needs some dimming too.(i'm pretty sure this can be solved by software.)

i considered a rehousing in some sort or repainting anyway. maybe pink and some oinkment

oh, didn't mention: still no pitch preview.

Here is a simple three octave major scale on the Moog THEREMINI with the new 1.1.0 firmware installed. As far as the CLASSIC THEREMIN program is concerned, there is little change from the original version 1.0 that came with the unit when I got it.

I am playing a three octave scale starting on G3 and I am applying exactly the same vibrato movements to each note throughout the scale from top to bottom.  You will notice that on the lower notes there is no response to vibrato at all. It is as if my hand were more or less stationary. As the notes rise, and my pitch hand gets closer to the antenna, the instrument becomes increasingly sensitive to movement. 

What some have called "latency" does not seem to be the problem. It is not that the instrument is BEHIND in registering gestures. It is not registering them at all! For the kinds of things I do on the theremin, the THEREMINI is useless. I imagine other experienced precision players will be of the same opinion.

I had high hopes that Moog would be able to correct the shortcomings of the THEREMINI with its firmware updates but I am beginning to think Thierry Frenkel was right. They cannot be corrected because they are built into the hardware. 

As for the other sounds and programs, I leave that for others to judge. I'm sure there are people here who will find them valuable although even in that capacity the instrument can do only a fraction of what is possible on the MIDI Ethervox. 

https://soundcloud.com/peter-pringle/theremini1-1-0

"Here is a simple three octave major scale on the Moog THEREMINI with the new 1.1.0 firmware installed. As far as the CLASSIC THEREMIN program is concerned, there is little change from the original version 1.0 that came with the unit when I got it."  - coalport

Ruh-roh!

"You will notice that on the lower notes there is no response to vibrato at all. It is as if my hand were more or less stationary. As the notes rise, and my pitch hand gets closer to the antenna, the instrument becomes increasingly sensitive to movement.

What some have called "latency" does not seem to be the problem. It is not that the instrument is BEHIND in registering gestures. It is not registering them at all!"

It's not a video so I can't see for myself, but could this be due to non-linearity?  If the note spacing for the low notes is physically wider, then you would need correspondingly wider vibrato motion to give the same pitch fluctuation.

If that's not the case, then there could be some kind of variable rate filtering going on (which I rather doubt).  My guess is the low gestural bandwidth is inherent to the architecture of the firmware, and can't be fixed without an overhaul.  Either that, or Moog Inc. isn't interested in our gripes (which I tend to believe).

If Moog Inc. has a "pro" model in the works, maybe releasing a toy/crap low-ender for contrast reasons is part of their cunning plan.  Then again, maybe they just don't get it.  It's likely that no one on their staff can even play the thing, and if that is indeed the case then they are developing in a vacuum.

Hi dews…This is really beyond a simple linearity problem. Yes, I could have played a vibrato on the lowest notes if I had used an arc with an amplitude of about ten inches. This interferes with overall pitch control, expression, and a whole lot of other things. 

Is Moog interested in our “gripes”? Of course not! Why would they be? Moog is interested in its bottom line. The instrument was designed by very good engineers who nothing about music or the requirements of the professional PRECISION thereminist. 

BTW, the visual pitch preview is useless. It will tell you when you are in the general neighborhood of the note you want but it can’t tell you when you are bang on! To do that efficiently and instantly, you need an audio preview and I’m not sure it’s possible to install one on the THEREMINI.

None of this is part of a cunning plan. They just don't "get it" because The Master is gone. They are no longer guided by Bob Moog's passion, love of music, patience, dedication, intelligence and intuitive insight. This should come as no surprise - hey, it's CHRISTMAS! Look was happened to the teachings of Jesus once he was no longer among the faithful! All hell broke loose!

If Bob were still alive this instrument, in its current state, would never have seen the light o’ day!

"None of this is part of a cunning plan. They just don't "get it" because The Master is gone. They are no longer guided by Bob Moog's passion, love of music, patience, dedication, intelligence and intuitive insight. This should come as no surprise - hey, it's CHRISTMAS! Look was happened to the teachings of Jesus once he was no longer among the faithful! All hell broke loose!" - Coalport

Amen to that!