Moog Theremini!

"there was a bit too much fuzz and hype on the theremini right after namm, and the first impresssions were dissapointing. what a strategie of doin bisniss."  - xtheremin8

It's what they all do, promise the world and deliver a clod of dirt.  NAMM hype just about kills me every year.

"so i hope it doesn't take 20 years to get that theremini-device developed into a true instrument. like with that camera."

Left to our corporate betters, I'd say 20 years minimum, if ever.

"what you call one that plays theremini? thereminimist? gestural controller?"

Dude, you're going to get this thread shut down!  ;-)

I suppose, if referring to oneself, one could be Theremini-me.

Gordon wrote: Just like all the other early digital cameras, it was a heap of junk that no serious photographer would ever consider buying. If the general public had any sense whatsoever they would not have bought any digital cameras at that time. And that would have been the end of digital cameras.

Excellent point Gordon but it should be pointed out that unlike the “QuickTake”, the Moog THEREMINI is not a step forward in the evolution of the theremin. It’s a step back! There is nothing the THEREMINI can do that cannot be done better, and more efficiently, by other theremins manufactured in the recent past by Moog Music. 

As a "CLASSIC THEREMIN" it cannot even stand up to the standard Etherwave.

If there were anything at all NEW about the THEREMINI, I would be the first to applaud it. 

I beg to differ - the early digital cameras were not a step forward either - there was nothing about them that traditional cameras could not do better. At best they were two steps back and one step sideways onto a different track. As it turned out that different track led to a lot of interesting and positive developments that were largely unpredictable at the time.

Yes, with hindsight it was a good move, but at the time the best you could say in their favour was that they had potential. Without a crystal ball you could not say what that potential was or whether it would be fulfilled, hardly a convincing argument in the face of professional photographers who knew the amazing things that could be done with a high end camera and a ton of darkroom skills.

Currently I know two things - (1) there is nothing the theremini can do that either you or I have not already done with either playing skills (you) or technology (me) and (2) there is no problem with the theremini that is inherent to digital hybrid theremins. 

What I do not know is what the future holds - maybe it will be one of those many ideas that seemed like a neat idea at the time but fizzled out, maybe with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight we will see it as a step forward.

Whichever, it transpires that I will number amongst the early adopters after all - Mrs C has decided that I will own a theremini in a month or so, and whatever sort of fool I am, I am not fool enough to contradict her on this matter. Instead I have decided to embrace the challenge. :-)

Dude, you're going to get this thread shut down!  ;-)

no,no, this thread might implode one day by itself. or if it goes too far out off context, get stopped by the thereminpolice or runs dry.

i can't take theremini to deeeply serious, and it does not take long to figure out: hey, without any editor, it's pretty shitty as a instrument.. so i need a editor and that actual one could be done so much more versatile..

like that "supersaw" waveform: you hear some two saw-waves, slight offbeat, but no control over the beat-frequency or detuning?--? what are those choosen-ones, betatesters, telling moog about the products they're testing? only tralala or what? (most of the time my etherwave-cv's are hooked up to some synth. so i have a faint idea what's what.) 

well, what the heck, this is one of the strangest and coolest corners on the www. must be the subject. can't be the members.  i don't want to mess things up, slow stuff down or hinder by any-means. there is already too much sick stuff elsewhere going on these days. so better keep synths ipads etc. out of tw, then? 

i called my instruments  names, but i never gave one a name , i think foo-foo fits this time somehow...c'mon frenchie..

a thereminion

Moving to Gordon's world (a world I think the Theremini excels in), I have no doubt that he will do some amazing things with the instrument. The question is not "Can the things the theremini do be replaced by a host of other technologies?". With enough $ anything can. The real issue is, "What would you have to pay for all those technologies needed to replace your $300 Theremini and how much more time do you need to do that (time is $ of course)?" 

Let's review some of the features/capabilities of the Theremini (centering on it here as a compositional tool):

1. Gestural Control both applied to line output and MIDI CV (Note, Pitch and Volume) to control other things. So you need to buy a theremin with CV control to start. You've just blown more than your $300 right there.

2. Ability to change to a wide variety sounds and edit them in many ways (and also change them on the fly through MIDI controlling wavetables and scan rates among other things). So you need a wavetable and substractive synth to control through CV from your theremin. They ain't cheap.

3. Built in speaker and Pitch display (at first I had doubts about the pitch display but as I play more it is a very viable substitute for pitch preview now that Moog fixed it to always display the correct pitch). And I don't have to have that darned buzzing going on in my ear. I really think Gordon will be able to make good use of that Pitch display.

4. Built in Digital Delay and real time control through MIDI.

5. Built in Filter control through app or real-time through MIDI

6. Ability to quantize - and control quantization amount in real time (I think this feature Gordon will really like as it can create some very interesting transitions and effects).

7. Ability to set a lot of scales for quantization modes - and control them in real time through MIDI (again this will allow for some really interesting harmonic transitions).

And I've left out a number of things related to volume, CC control, dynamic range adjustment, new Theremin mode, etc. -  so I think you are likely talking $1000-2000 to replace all those Theremini functions (and the editor is free). We've just seen Thomas experimenting with filter format-like patches to get Talk Machine like sounds - add that in too.

And I assume (but have no control over or knowledge that) Moog is going to add other things that we all have been asking for down the road like ability to create your own wavetables and support for MIDI note output. $300 is really a pittance for all you get here from the composer's perspective.

Gordon completely stunned me with an inexpensive LostVolt Theremin and a couple pedals. I can't wait to hear what he is going to come up with throwing a Theremini in the mix. 

Rich

I’d just like to point out that my own rather strident criticism of the Moog THEREMINI has been restricted to its “CLASSIC THEREMIN” program. I have no doubt that the other programs and functions of the instrument will be of great interest to a lot of people - particularly to those musicians whose work must be guided by cost. 

" the early digital cameras were not a step forward either - there was nothing about them that traditional cameras could not do better." - GordonC

Gordon,

I think the difference / flaw in the analogy is this.. Back in the days of the "Quicktake" it was about as good as one could get affordably  with the available components and state of digital technology.

The above is not true for the theremini - Available digital components and the state of the art are far more advanced than the comparison with Quicktake - There was no reason for the theremini to be such a complete bodge!

But the main criticism isnt that the theremini is crap - the main criticism is that it was marketed dishonestly.. The Quicktake was not marketed in a way that gave the impression that it was capable of doing what a low-end conventional SLR camera could do.

Fred.

(Ps - I wish you well with the theremini.. I fear though that it could impact your style and become your "master" rather than an instrument you (ab)use! ... I have seen this happen to a few musicians who get lost in the simplicity of waving their arms about and it playing "tunes"...

I am extremely interested in hearing your impression of the theremini once you have had it for a while - in particular, I am interested in what you think of its "feel" - You are someone who appears to have an acute sense of this, talking about field "feel" in terms of "oil" and "treacle" if I remember correctly - I have no doubt you will love the greater sound pallet, but wonder how you will get on with the "feel")

Rich, thank you for your confidence in me, and for upping the challenge a couple of notches.

No pressure then. ;-)

Peter, well here's hoping Moog's next theremin is hideously expensive and will appeal to a better class of musician. (Just teasing.)

Fred, what sold the theremini to Mrs C was my reactions to the videos by Dorit and Lydia - I love some of the sounds that they got the instrument to make. As for the rest of the marketing campaign - I'd love to live in a world where advertising executives went insane (by their standards) and started telling the truth...

I do get your point about being in charge of the instrument rather than vice versa. This is something I was very aware of when I started, and it is still an important consideration when I'm playing.

Hi! To see the chaces to use the Theremini as a regular Theremin, i've posted a vídeo playing classic music, 

http://youtu.be/Td3Ju2V3zHM

Hi Robonil,

I dont think its your "fault" - but I have not yet heard anything played on the theremini in "theremin" mode which was even slightly enjoyable.

Is it just me? Everything I have heard has gross over and undershoot even if the right note is eventually located - there is a "drunken" aspect to it which (to my ears at least) simply makes it sound bloody horrible.

But some people at least seem to enjoy what they hear and even find it "moving".. I dont! Its not the players fault - to me, even Lydia Kavina playing the theremini in "theremin" mode sounds horrible.

Fred.