Moog Music Theremini Reviews

It's kind of saddening to hear the news, Roger. I still haven't had an opportunity to play the final commercial Theremini, but I did also check out the manuals on the Moog Music website. 

It seems very straight forward to me, that an inexpensive mic stand adapter should be included in the box...  Why even include the threaded socket if one has to do double back flips in order to use it?   It does not make sense. Perhaps the market research showed that people wanting to simply wave their hands around and get spacey sounds would not mind sabotaging its playability by placing it on a table. Was the cost of a mic stand adapter 50 cents too much?

When I was at the NAMM show, I explicitly offered my assistance and continued feedback to help make the Moog Music Theremini as great as is could possibly be.  Since then, I have heard NOTHING from anyone at the company.  I understand that my prototype review wasn't exactly a glowing ball of approval, but I did not completely write off the instrument as a failure either. 

If anyone at Moog Music is reading this,  HELLO!!!!!!   we are here, people that will actually pay you money, who actually do want to help your business, who can promote your products, but only if A) you communicate with us, and B) you actually use our feedback.   Perhaps all my incoming/outgoing email has been hijacked since February. If that is then case, then I apologize, but either way, you guys own the chess board. Make a move!

dewster, spot on. simplicity is the key.

"Thinking about this a bit more, they should perhaps allow just one auto calibration (with manual tweak) - and this would be for the far hand position." - Dewster

Massive grain of salt needed for my comments - same reason as Dewster..

Re auto-calibration .. I did play with the idea a lot - was obsessed about its "value" - But I think its one of these engineering obsessions / follies that actually has no real importance - far better NOT to have ANY auto-calibration than to have something that gives any trouble or can give any trouble IMO.

I gave up - Realized that the only real possible confusion with manual tuning only applies to those new to the instrument - If one indicates "wrong side of null" and mutes the instrument in this state, this potential error is removed - Tuning so this indicator glimmers when the hand is say 65cm from the pitch antenna, and knowing that from this state a clockwise rotation of the tuning control moves this null point closer to the antenna, tuning is a doddle.

With a conventional analogue theremin the above is easy to implement - just detect a condition when the Variable Oscillators frequency is >= than the Reference Oscillator frequency, and switch on the LED / Activate the "muting" envelope (to silence / reactivate the instrument without abruptness)

With a digital theremin (or analogue theremin having adjustable EQ) things may be a bit trickier - But I am sure the complexity of an auto-calibrating scheme will always be greater - and always be more likely to cause problems than a simple guiding light to indicate the (real or virtual) null point.

" Unfortunately, there seemed to be residual quantization even though I tried to turn it completely off." - Roger

What sort of quantization? Was it trying to quantize to the nearest semitone (or other musical interval) or was the quantization "finer" and perhaps more 'random' (perhaps hopping about in 10 cent steps or something like that) ?

I suspect its something like the latter - that its actually quantization error you are hearing - that, in fact, the (digital) resolution is too low. IMO, its far easier to mask low resolution if one 'locks' to the nearest musical interval, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if this problem was deemed unimportant for the target market who (in the main) probably have quantization turned up, and wouldn't notice a few tens of cents jitter when using the instrument for sound effects.

This isn't an instrument for classical / precision  thereminists as far as I can see - To them its probably the equivalent of a "Guitar Hero" "guitar" to someone who plays perhaps a Gibson Es-175.

Fred.

It's sad to hear that some of us are disspointed after to play the Theremini, i have my own since almost 2 weeks, and my first thought was very same, but i've given more days to get used with this new one, it's very different in sensibility of pitch antenna, is not "Lineal" the spaces between notes through the pitch antenna witch is very unconfortable, but it has several points at his favor

- Volume antenna works very good, one can choose the distance of working and the large between 0 to max. volume

- Pitch antenna, one can choose the lower and highest note perfectly, in this case the higher notes are very closed, but if you want to play in medium range you have a very good theremin to play

- A respected list of different sounds to choose, several kinds of Theremin in one device

- Completly stable in tunning aspect

If you are used to play a Etherwave, or E-pro, there are not chances to compare it, the Bob's design are far away more much better, but the Theremini is a good Theremin for a beginner as for a expert, is different in most aspects and that thing one, as Thereminist, we must have in mind. I love the Theremin and i respect the only one company that sells Theremins in the world, the Theremini can have a second chance, an improved version, and we can contribute to do that.

"it's very different in sensibility of pitch antenna, is not "Lineal" the spaces between notes through the pitch antenna witch is very unconfortable...

<snip>

- Pitch antenna, one can choose the lower and highest note perfectly, in this case the higher notes are very closed, but if you want to play in medium range you have a very good theremin to play"  - robonil

Robonil, this is very interesting.  Could you tell us more about this?  Are you saying the pitch middle range is smooth and the highs and lows are not smooth?  Does the non-smoothness or stepping correspond to semi-tones?

Moog reps said the note quantization could be completely turned off.  Were they blowing smoke?

From what I can tell, there are a lot of visitors finding this thread from outside of Thereminworld. There are unfortunately not many sources for exhaustive reviews of Theremin products and Thereminworld is among the first pages to show up in any 'Theremin' related Google search.   I hoped more people would contribute to this thread, but it's beginning to be a host for some wild tangents. (Not that they are not interesting). 

Does any one have experience they can share about the Theremini?  Please don't be shy. Good or bad feedback both seem to be scarce.  I would love to hear if there are people that are enjoying their Moog Theremini and who are getting a lot out of it.  

"I hoped more people would contribute to this thread, but it's beginning to be a host for some wild tangents. (Not that they are not interesting)."  - randy george

Sorry about that, Chief.  I got rid of some of my extraneous posts too.

"Does any one have experience they can share about the Theremini?"

Just did a quick inventory search for Guitar Centers in my area, but unfortunately the nearest one they claim is in stock is in Brooklyn.  I'd much rather just demo one in a store, but I'm strongly thinking about buying one to test out and report here (and most likely return it) but it looks like most sites (Sweetwater, Kraft, etc.) are only doing pre-orders.

Anyone out there in northern NJ with a Theremini that I could spend a bit of quality time with?

"If you are used to play a Etherwave, or E-pro, there are not chances to compare it, the Bob's design are far away more much better" - robonil

This is the real rub - Bob designed several really good theremin "front-ends" - In particular, the E-Pro and E-Vox seem to be liked in terms of linearity and stability..

Moog COULD make a pro theremin employing this technology - The really tricky part of theremin design is the part that Bob has, by all accounts, solved on the Pro instruments.. The rest of the circuitry is stuff any competent engineer working on audio / synthesis could improve without excessive investment in development time etc.

But it looks like they've thrown all the R+D done by Bob into the bin, re-engineered the front-end to the lowest evolutionary state, and handed the audio engine to software engineers.

Sure, there may be a place, musically, for the Theremini - But its not a place (AFAICS) that most thereminists want to go, or will provide them with what they want / need.

So far, on TW, the count is: 3 theremini bought, 2 returned.. One full account of problems that caused the return of one Theremini - Issues which make it absolutely unusable for a precision thereminist.

One happy user who declares that pitch is not linear, but really likes (A) the volume response (B) adjustable span (C) Wider tone palette (D) Stability .

The sample is still too small to get a true statistic, but it aint looking good.

Fred.

Fred,  I enjoy reading and reflecting on your posts when they are off topic.  Please don't delete stuff. My apologies. I am not here to police the thread. I've just noticed the number of eyes on this thread far exceeds the number of people posting. ... a good opportunity to say what you need to say, but not good if what you say is not good. Bleh, this comment I write now is exactly what I don't like writing, because I'd rather just say what needs to be said and nothing more.  Oh, the inner turmoil ;)

"But it looks like they've thrown all the R+D done by Bob into the bin, re-engineered the front-end to the lowest evolutionary state, and handed the audio engine to software engineers."  - FredM

Which you honestly could do if you kept an eye on resolution.  Even direct conversion has enough resolution if you handle it right.  I have a feeling they didn't go for maximum LC sensitivity, are perhaps are heterodyning down to base band, aren't sampling enough, or are running into numerical issues in the code.  I'd love to crack one open and probe it a bit. 

Sweetwater is telling me it'll be August, unless I want a return unit ("Every so often we get one returned").  Which I might take if I can get a discount.  If I open it I won't return it but sell it independently if it turns out to be a dog.

"Bleh, this comment I write now is exactly what I don't like writing, because I'd rather just say what needs to be said and nothing more.  Oh, the inner turmoil ;)"  - randy george

Hey!  YOU!  Stop going OT! 

I keed!  ;-)

I don't have any user experience to report - yet - but I have been poring over the manual, and I am increasingly of the opinion that Moog designed the theremini with their primary customer base - synthesiser players - in mind, not classical thereminists. The retro-sci-fi look of the enclosure won't sit well in a classical music setting, the set up routines will be frustrating if not downright annoying to anyone used to the classic "tune to interval" tuning technique, and the synthesis engine does not offer much hope of producing sounds that resemble acoustic instruments. There is one dim light at the end of the tunnel - the software can be upgraded via the USB port. Perhaps one day an upgrade will be made that will accomodate classical tuning, linearise the pitch field in software and radically change the nature of the synthesis. Perhaps. Who knows.

As a thereminist at the electronic music end of the thereminist spectrum the tuning issues don't bother me too much - I use a very primitive tuning technique that does not involve iterated fine tuning to suit aerial fingering.

What does excite me about the theremini is the possibility of going beyond the thirty two presets. There is mention of apps in the manual - I take this to mean apps for iPhones and iPads and such like. There are no apps currently available, nor any word on when they might appear, but the appendices strongly suggest that one should be able to construct a custom user interface using an app such as TouchOSC that offers a lot more flexibility and control during performance than the little LCD display on the theremini.