Thierry On The T'Vox

"I found myself being the weakest element in the chain during that whole weekend " - Thierry

I wasnt going to make any comments about the performance -

But, IMO, most of it was a racket! - I didnt like the sound of the Odes at all, and really, IMO, it was you and the Tvox in the lower registers that saved the day .. I think the piano and Tvox went well together - but the mix was way too "top heavy" for my taste - it needed less HF!

I certainly didnt see your contribution as any "weak link" - I listened to the whole piece - I would probably only have listened to 25% if you hadnt kept a bit of balance.

Fred

I just watched the other two videos of the concert: The Bach CHORALE and the Fauré CANTIQUE. 

The wonderful thing about the kind of "experimental" improvisation that we see in LE MIROIR DES OISEAUX is that you can't mess it up. Intonation is not a consideration, timing is only approximate, and everybody is having a good time. 

When it comes to playing an established piece of classical music in a duet with an instrument like the ondes, what happens is that the shortcomings of the theremin (not to mention of the thereminist) stick out like a sore thumb! Don't forget, Dr. Martenot developed the ondes with its keyboard and "ruban" in order to overcome the very flaws that become glaringly obvious when the theremin plays with the ondes in the same piece. 

When you add all that to a situation in which an amateur musician (dedicated though he or she may be) is playing with full time professionals, you have a potential recipe for disaster. 

"The wonderful thing about the kind of "experimental" improvisation that we see in LE MIROIR DES OISEAUX is that you can't mess it up." - Coalport

Im not sure I agree ;-)  ... Some "experimental" sounds great to me, some sounds crap - I do think one can "mess up" an experimental piece (and to me,LE MIROIR DES OISEAUX wasmessed up most of the time - but not by Thierry! ;-) - the difference is only that there are no "objective" measures that can be applied to "prove" that the piece is "messed up".. Also, as its all subjective, what I deem "messed up" may be seen as masterful by someone else - Evaluation probably comes down to concensus - if everyone thinks its messed up, then it probably is! ;-)

Fred.

Fred wrote: "....what I deem "messed up" may be seen as masterful by someone else - Evaluation probably comes down to concensus - if everyone thinks its messed up, then it probably is!"

An 18-year-old nephew of mine recently remarked, "Shakespeare is shit".

When people say something like that, they are telling you nothing about Shakespeare or about his works. They are telling you about themselves. If my nephew's school were to vote on whether Shakespeare was shit, I imagine the entire student body would be of the opinion that he is.

There are objective criteria by which a musical performance can be judged: are the notes correct, are they played in tune, is the time signature being respected, are the musicians in sync with one another, etc., but with experimental music none of these elements is a consideration. The comment that the piece was "messed up" tells me nothing at all except that the individual who said that - in this case YOU - didn't like it.

Fred, at least you had the presence of mind to point out that what you deem "messed up" may be seen as masterful by someone else. As for judging the quality of art by general consensus, it ain't a good idea.

I asked my nephew when Shakespeare lived and when he wrote his "shit" plays. There was a brief moment of thoughtful silence......."Sometime in the 1920's.....".

"As for judging the quality of art by general consensus, it ain't a good idea." - Coalport

LOL ;-)

I actually fully agree with you on this! ;-)

But when it comes to "experimental" music, there really isnt any way to "Judge" it is there (?) - It simply comes down to "I like it" or "I dont like it" - Or more specifically, "I like this performance" vs "I didnt like that performance".

With something on the lines of "liking" or "disliking" Shakespeare, there are arguments that can be brought into play by which the quality can be compared / evaluated - Grammar, plot, theme, whatever.. With "non-experimental" music, there are things like intonation and timing.. "objective" aspects by which one can "justify" liking or disliking - (not that this, on a personal level, actually changes anything - you like it (or pretend to like it because you "should" like it ;-) or you dont!

There are no (or none that I know of) "objective" criterion one can use for experimental.. But I like some of it nonetheless, and I like most of it more than I like much popular music which "qualifies" as "music" because it has "better" (more standard) intonation and timing.. And if these criterion were used as a means of evaluating all music, even the most (IMO) crap piece of popular music churned out by some algorythm would be deemed "superior" to any piece of experimental music I enjoy.

So yes - "The comment that the piece was "messed up" tells me nothing at all except that the individual who said that - in this case YOU - didn't like it." - is true - Thats all it can say, and all you can gleen from what I say .. Perhaps if I understood the reason why I like / dislike particular pieces, I could explain why (the closest I can come in this case is to say that, for me, it was way too "toppy" - there was a mess of interacting HF that for me was unpleasant and irritating) - but I dont.. There MUST be reasons, but I suspect we will only discover these when / if we gain a better understanding of the neurology involved with music.

Fred

 ps - with regard to Shakespeare .. I am not really sure its a good idea to force young people to read it - IMO, there are some things one only really get to enjoy as one gets older, and forcing these onto young people can put them off for life... There are plenty of really good reads better suited to youngsters - Give them Lord of the Rings, Moby Dick, or any of the myriad of other classics - but not Shakespeare! ;-)

pps - "messed up" is not a term I generally use - I only used these words because you said there was no way to "mess up" an experimental performance.. I took the bait, LOL ;-)

back to "THE NIGHTINGALE".

Here is Kovalsky' version: