New theremin? Nano from Poland...

ok - we now know its an XOR (Logic) mixer, and therefore know that this "soft" waveform is the core waveform.

I could well be wrong, but I suspect that there isnt a true VCA in this theremin - Having two VCA's in a low cost theremin did seem a bit unlikely to me (and having two independent waveforms out each being controlled by the same volume CV would require 2 VCA's) .. I suspect that the PWM from the XOR and other logic (to produce the "harsh" waveform PWM) are switching a couple of CMOS transmission gates (4066) or changeover transmission gates (4053) which are being fed the volume CV prior to integration / filtering.

[Edit] -> Just seen that both VCA and VCF are said to be in the box -  Sorry, but I find it hard to believe there's a VCF in there.

It really wouldnt surprise me if a simplified version of the scheme I presented  here and on Element 14 has been employed.

All fine and good - but if the above is true, then IMO its really sad - because with the addition of one potentiometer and a few cheap components, the "harsh" waveform could have been fully adjustable from triangle to ramp - giving a huge tone palette.

[Edit] -> It looks like there is a tone adjusting preset that does just that! ;-)

The critical test (possible volume interaction) and the fear that there may be problems in this area, have not been cleared away with these samples.

So until assec has more time and can deal with the matters raised in this thread, I would be extremely cautious before risking buying this theremin.

Fred.

Have linked the following to make life easier ...

more technical informations bellow:
http://assec.pl/details.gif
http://assec.pl/pureout.jpg
http://assec.pl/harshout.jpg

mp3 samples (direct from nano theremin output):
http://assec.pl/pureout.mp3
http://assec.pl/harshout.mp3

My money's on Arduino or similar.  Clues are: (1) sticky pitch and (2) the waveforms look too "mathematical".

"My money's on Arduino or similar." - Dewster

You could be right! - The "non-smooth pitch change" probably indicates a non-analogue mechanism. - I am not certain that this isnt player "stutter" though, but (if I am hearing and looking at the same as you are) I am inclined to think you are right..

The triangle and preset-adjustable "harsh" waveforms though... If youve got an Arduino, why would you choose to produce waveforms like those ? - However those waveforms just fall out of a few XOR's and an OR.. The "mathematical" nature of mixed-signal waveforms (derived from frequency/phase shifted square wave into logic gates, to produce a PWM which is then integrated) can be every bit as precise as what one can compute digitally (or at least they can be when one has high frequencies with low difference frequency)

Anyway, my interest has now waned to near zero - Arduino or XOR or whatever - until we see the linearity and hear some quality sounds which incorporate volume control, all other speculation seems quite pointless to me.

Fred.

"If youve got an Arduino, why would you choose to produce waveforms like those ?"  - FredM

Simple up/down counting and thresholding.  These are the kinds of waveforms I pick to do quick and dirty demos via DDS.

I can't understand why there is such a hype and discussion about this "device". Same thing as for the theremini. As long as none of the professional precision Thereminists like Lydia, Carolina or Thorwald fund it worth performing on it in concert, it is IMHO even not worth being mentioned here as it is a waste of time, storage and bandwidth. If the designers of new instruments (be it assec or moog) did not work together with one of the above mentioned professionals, it is very unlikely that their creations are offering something new and important compared to the instruments which are actually played by these.

Dewster,

I am almost sure your hypothesis is correct. Examining the swept waveform, there is none of the shape distortion one gets from analogue or mixed-signal theremins - in fact the triangle is so consistent throughout the sweep that I think it could only be generated directly, as you say, by an up/down counter in an MCU.

 ---------------------

 <<  I removed my prior reply to Thierry's posting as it was needlessly angry and harsh - Sorry Thierry, we just have this effect on each other - brings out the worst in both of us I think - I always scorned the French / English animosity stereotype, but I kind of wonder if there's perhaps some cultural / language / whatever mechanism that causes "reaction" with some of us  >>

For Enya's following posting to make sense - its derived from the fact that I challenged the list of thereminists Thierry presented, and stated that I felt no one had the right to specify such a list - someone else may have included Enya and GordonC and Randy for example..

Oh, and for Touchless's comment to make sense, that was from me quoting Peter Pringle "There is no such thing as a professional thereminist"

But I have replaced that posting with this..

"It is logical to presume that as neither Lydia nor Carolina nor Thorwald  has ever played this instrument, there is little likelihood of there being anything new or important about it. After calculating the probabilities I have concluded that its is therefore a waste of time and bandwidth to examine or discuss this 'device' any further. Logically, knowing that it had never been played by Lydia or Carolina or Thorwald we should never even have beamed it aboard..."

"I can't understand why there is such a hype and discussion about this "device". Same thing as for the theremini. As long as none of the professional precision Thereminists like Lydia, Carolina or Thorwald fund it worth performing on it in concert, it is IMHO even not worth being mentioned here as it is a waste of time, storage and bandwidth. If the designers of new instruments (be it assec or moog) did not work together with one of the above mentioned professionals, it is very unlikely that their creations are offering something new and important compared to the instruments which are actually played by these." - Thierry

ROFLMAO!!


;-)

Fred

I agree with Fred that Peter is the finest Thereminist in the America's but I have yet to find the brand of theremin instrument designed by Fred or Dewster after following them the past year. If it topped the sound of Peter’s “Hoffman” without the post processing I would be interested in purchasing one. Well talk to me?

T

Touchless,

If youv'e only been waiting a year for me, then its about 1/4 the time that many others have.. ;-) This is one reason I gave assec the warm welcome I did..

"Well talk to me?"

IMO Building a replica "Hoffman" would be suicide, even by theremin standards.. You might sell a total of 5 IMO if you were extremely lucky - The same IMO goes for any replica of any one theremin, because there are so few who would buy them.. Hell, even the "Claramin" (A theremin whose sound I really like - better than the Hoffman) isnt liked by many thereminists.

IMO, the only viable route is a high quality (in terms of stability and linearity, and having adjustability of linearity and span/sensitivity)  theremin that can be adjusted to produce the sound the thereminist REALLY likes - be this an RCA or a Hoffman or an E-Pro or a Jaycar or something similar to a Mini-Moog lead!

Its the early (Lev) theremins which are the real challenge - I believe they can be emulated by having formant filters in the audio path (particularly if one has a comprehensive range of waveforms for excitation) - It may even be possible to get close feeding a formant box from a EWS ..

But I dont have any more money to continue - certainly not enough to get anything into production... So all I can do (at best) is get one prototype working and give the designs away (after probably trying to sell them ;-) .. So dont wait for any theremin from me! I am scheduled for homelessness in December... My fortunes might change, but dont hold your breath!  ;-)

Sadly, everything is geared towards production of low-end theremins.. Development costs are low, production costs are low, and the vast majority of the market is in this area, so one could make a reasonable profit by hyping some unexceptional theremin which people will buy - If I was sensible I would have just copied some standard design, touched it up a bit, and been selling in the £200 band and making £100 a piece.. (My final  H1 was good enough for all but perhaps the top 10% of the market)   Most people would have been just as happy with that as with a truly innovative theremin that was really great. The only ones who would be really happy with a true high-end theremin (and its higher price tag) would be perhaps 20 "Pro"customers at best.

Lev had the resources of a large technical department behind him when he developed the theremin, Bob Moog had a company with resources and staff when he developed his high-end theremins. Dewster and I are one-man-bands with limited resources trying to develop new excellent instruments, not just cloning someone else's designs..

I have failed - I grossly miscalculated the complexity and simultaneously became too perfectionist and wasted my chances on pedantic R+D and chasing too many rabbits down interesting looking holes ;-).. The probability of me dying in the next 5 years is far greater than the probability of me getting any musical instrument to market... There is however a slightly higher probability that ideas I post here might seed some part of a really good theremin someone else puts into production.

Fred.

Oh please Fred... I am not worthy of a so called precision thereminist title (or theremin player for that matter) as I play Enya's elevator music on my theremin :) 

Not worth mentioning... Moving along :)

"I grossly miscalculated the complexity and simultaneously became too perfectionist and wasted my chances on pedantic R+D and chasing too many rabbits down interesting looking holes ;-)."  - FredM

I'm not exactly complaining, but I've found it to be a very weird line to tread.

<snip>

I'm glad the Nano is making it to market, it incorporates some nice physical ideas.