New theremin? Nano from Poland...

Assec - thank you very much for posting the additional information, it has answered some of my questions. I hope you soon have time to participate more actively in this discussion.

i still have two requests. Please can you tell me if the pressure pad can be made so that if I put my foot on it quite gently the sound of the theremin is fully muted until I remove my foot. Please can you post a video demonstrating a slow glissando from the lowest to the highest note, and a slow crescendo from silence to full volume. If it is possible for the glissando to have autotune applied that would make it much easier for me to understand the linearity of the theremin. Thank you.

Thierry - I think this theremin brings two new things. I cannot think of another theremin that is equally suitable for both left and right handed players, which is unarguably a good thing. The combination of volume rod and pressure pad is also new, although I must admit that so far I have completely failed to convince anyone that this is an exciting and important innovation.

Gordon -  I cannot think of another theremin that is equally suitable for both left and right handed players, which is unarguably a good thing.

The Subscope might be a good example, Domnik is a really creative designer that I admire. Did you get your method of volume attack resolved, I also had some interest in what approach worked best. I have always thought attack was a limiting aspect of the old theremin.

I get visiting keyboardist and this is often mentioned, funny some connect with the theremin rather quickly and others just don't get it, they use words like it is too soft.

T

"The combination of volume rod and pressure pad is also new, although I must admit that so far I have completely failed to convince anyone that this is an exciting and important innovation." - GordonC

I agree with you on this Gordon, I think having pedal and optional volume rod is the best kind of clever - simple clever! If the two can work together in a "summing" mode, and particularly if the pedals 'polarity' can be switched, then I think this could provide much easier control of dynamics than the rod (or pedal) alone.

The only group of thereminists who may not find this useful might be the classical / precision lot - I am not sure one could manage pitch stability and pedal/rod variation... Dont know... But if its only the 20 or so precision thereminists who wouldnt use this, who cares! ;-)

oops - did I say 20? more like 10? 5? 3? ;-)

Fred.

" I have always thought attack was a limiting aspect of the old theremin." - Touchless

I think the truly "old" theremins that used the tube heater for volume control were really slow..

But apart from this, I dont think its so much the instrument as the player - It is not easy to move ones hand rapidly enough to generate a really fast attack - A few people can manage this convincingly in the bass register IMO, but I doubt you will ever get an attack that compares to say that of a piano in the mid registers..

But its a theremin, not a piano! I do understand the keyboardists perspective though - they are used to whacking a key fast to get higher volume, and not used to having actual manual real-time control of the level and envelope waveform.

Control of the volume on the theremin is where I fell over, just never managed to do it simultaneously with control of pitch... My main (playing) experience is with keyboards.

Fred.

"Did you get your method of volume attack resolved"

I got to a position where I felt I had enough information available to be to make an educated decision, but electronics is not my fortė, so I needed time to assimilate and properly understand the data. As this happened just as the focus of the group moved to the theremini it seemed opportune to put the idea on the metaphorical back burner and let it bubble away in my subconscious until my private life was in a quiet patch and I could sit and think it through for as long as I need without distraction. 

I think that the best way is to use a regular switch and measure the time it takes to travel between the on and off positions, and use this to derive an envelope, but the other suggestions have merit too. And then along comes assec's modular theremin and I am totally in love with the look of it! So, providing that it meets my not-too-demanding requirements, the current plan is to get one at the earliest opportunity (hopefully in a month or two - I need a month where my bank account does not have more immediate demands placed on it) and thoroughly explore the pressure pad solution. If that does not pan out as I hope, then I may well impose on Fred's generosity and ask him to rustle up a switch based solution.:-)

And you're right, the subscope voicematic 3 is ambidextrous. I am surprised this is not higher priority with other designers. It's already a niche market, why would you alienate about 10% of your potential customers?

"It's already a niche market, why would you alienate about 10% of your potential customers?"  - GordonCI think that the best way is to use a regular switch and measure the time it takes to travel between the on and off positions, and use this to derive an envelope, but the other suggestions have merit too.

We're a shirty lot.  e.g. I once shot a man in Reno just to watch him die. 

Some designer should only make lefty models and watch the alienation meter hit 90%.  Better yet, only make really lame lefty models, and watch it peg.

"I think that the best way is to use a regular switch and measure the time it takes to travel between the on and off positions, and use this to derive an envelope, but the other suggestions have merit too."

You've probably thought this through more than I have, but that will only give you a calculated velocity between two points, a technique they routinely use in keyboards.  The location of the trip points should make sense in order for this to work the best, perhaps most of the way up and most of the way down, and you must play it in a very deliberate way.  I would endeavor to employ a sensor that instead senses position (hall effect, capacitance of the foot, capacitance of a hinged plate, IR reflection, pressure conduction, etc.) and build off that.  You know pretty much everything if you know position (and the info is either continuous or sampled at a high rate), but you can't work backwards from higher moments like velocity (except for at the trip points themselves).

"It's already a niche market, why would you alienate about 10% of your potential customers?"

I agree - IMO having an instrument suitable for, or easily changed (socket on both sides for loop, either LH or RH) or a scheme like assec's is nearly essential - particularly if one has a lot of knobs on a sloping panel, so playing from the front is more important.

" If that does not pan out as I hope, then I may well impose on Fred's generosity and ask him to rustle up a switch based solution.:-)"-GordonC

Gordon, Switches is the option I would be least happy about or able to do for you.. I just about have enough space and facilities to put a small circuit board together right now, but anything involving any kind of mechanical assembly is a no-can-do.

However, if the pad on the Nano was resistive, then one probably doesn't need mechanical switching - a pair of comparators looking for two reference points, or some other slope detector, can easily emulate a switch.. A lot will depend on the volume mechanism in the Nano - I want to see the Nano waveform as volume is changed, or know that there really is a VCA and that this function isnt being performed in the MCU.. There are just way too many unknowns - I do understand your love for the look of this instrument and its pedal - but be cautious - Wait until there's more information before you part with money is my advice.

I am a bit worried about the difference between the first clean 'raw' MP3 and the latter 'mathematical' one as well - The first was obviously going through some processing (filter at least) but I see no control for this on the theremin.. And I have a number of questions regarding the audio output configuration.. Claimed to have VCA and VCF - But I see no sign of a VCF and if theres a VCA, then I cannot see how there can be only one for two separate VC audio outputs.. Questions also about #bits in output waveform and whether the "VCA"s are perhaps digital multiplicands rather than true VCA's (this would make the instrument far less useful to you in particular) and whether the actual output resolution reduces drastically as the multiplicands change..

In all, we REALLY dont know if this is a usable instrument at all (and im not talking 'precision' or anything like that) - all we know is that it has a pedal and clever antenna arrangement. 

Fred.

This theremin looks interesting it has to be said.

With regard to the volume pad: there are several volume foot pedals already out there-surely it would be fairly simple to design a small auxilliary circuit which would enable an existing foot volume pedal to 'interrupt' the main volume as controlled by the volume antenna on the theremin?

Just a thought.

Roy

Fred, that is exactly why I need time to reread the thread at my leisure and fully absorb the information.

Roy, at the risk of going even further off topic - I have tried a simple switch. It's a harsh sound. What is needed is analogous to the envelope generator of a synth. The simplest way would be to preset an attack and release duration with a pot, but it would be better for it to be responsive to my foot movement - e.g. harder or faster for a faster attack/release.

This would be a given for a floor standing capacitive sensor with a very small field to accommodate the sort distance a foot would move, but the consensus is that a floor standing capacitive sensor is not practical. So do I want to measure pressure or velocity on impact and release, that's the question.

It is made a little trickier in that I need it to be at full volume when my foot is away from the pedal, (if for no better reason than to allow me to operate effects with my foot whilst playing, although my experiments to date suggest that this is preferable anyway) and muted when my foot is on the pedal, so the attack phase, which is more significant than the release phase in terms of how it affects our perception of the sound, needs to measure how I remove my foot from the pedal when it has not had any opportunity to accelerate as it would when stamping down.

Also, from an ergonomic point of view, I think the footplate ought to be as thin as possible, so it would be like tapping my foot on the floor in time with the music. 

I'm beginning to see more clearly your requirements now Gordon. Will keep thinking on it but don't hold your breath as many, not least yourself, are way ahead in having thought about this and it's potential solutions.