Open Theremin V3, volume oscillator not working

Posted: 4/14/2020 8:55:08 PM
skinkie

Joined: 4/14/2020

Since everyone is locked inside a home the last few weeks I ordered an open theremin v3 PCB with separate components. I have assembled it. My initial problem was that something in the pitch block went wrong, causing a "frequency tuning range: 0 to 0" [color=#111111][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]in the calibration debug. Although I did not order at gaudi.ch, I did get a reply from Urs it was likely my newby SMD-soldering. So after a day of puzzling I still don't get a tone out of the device. [/font][/color]For sake of convenience I have soldered some short electrical copper wires as antenna.

What works:
1. LEDs and button work, I am able to trigger a calibration, which I am also able to see happen.
2. When connecting the device to my amplifier, I hear the tones when it enters calibration mode, but I do not hear any other side.

I have a DIY oscillator (JYE DSO150) which shows me a sine wave on both antenna's when I connect it to ground. Is there any smart way to check the board when it is connected to the Arduino?

My calibration looks like this, notice that the set frequency is in both case out of the frequency tuning range. I would love to hear some suggestions.

PITCH CALIBRATION

Arudino Freq: 16002713.00

Pitch Set Frequency: 499215
Frequency tuning range: 618655 to 622695

DAC value L: 0 Freq L: 119447
DAC value H: 4095 Freq H: 123478

DAC value L: 4095 Freq L: 123440
DAC value H: 9729 Freq H: 120597

DAC value L: 9729 Freq L: 120621
DAC value H: -13427 Freq H: 121734

DAC value L: -13427 Freq L: 121716
DAC value H: -28937 Freq H: 123081

DAC value L: -28937 Freq L: 123077
DAC value H: -6669 Freq H: 120585

DAC value L: -6669 Freq L: 120614
DAC value H: 2712 Freq H: 121523

DAC value L: 2712 Freq L: 121511
DAC value H: -6237 Freq H: 120921

DAC value L: -6237 Freq L: 120934
DAC value H: -5334 Freq H: 121648

DAC value L: -5334 Freq L: 121637
DAC value H: -28110 Freq H: 119889

DAC value L: -28110 Freq L: 119925
DAC value H: 14873 Freq H: 121455

DAC value L: 14873 Freq L: 121428
DAC value H: -18944 Freq H: 120631

DAC value L: -18944 Freq L: 120647
DAC value H: -17165 Freq H: 122208

DAC value L: -17165 Freq L: 122183
DAC value H: -25367 Freq H: 122160

DAC value L: -25367 Freq L: 122159
DAC value H: -7245 Freq H: 120183

DAC value L: -7245 Freq L: 120216
DAC value H: -30030 Freq H: 121581

DAC value L: -30030 Freq L: 121557
DAC value H: 32590 Freq H: 123240

DAC value L: 32590 Freq L: 123233
DAC value H: -16026 Freq H: 119742

DAC value L: -16026 Freq L: 119792
DAC value H: -25491 Freq H: 122040

DAC value L: -25491 Freq L: 122004
DAC value H: 29595 Freq H: 120185

DAC value L: 29595 Freq L: 120218
DAC value H: -5497 Freq H: 121562

DAC value L: -5497 Freq L: 121539
DAC value H: -22186 Freq H: 121290

DAC value L: -22186 Freq L: 121293
DAC value H: -25074 Freq H: 122761

DAC value L: -25074 Freq L: 122751
DAC value H: 19826 Freq H: 122442

DAC value L: 19826 Freq L: 122441
DAC value H: -24837 Freq H: 123124

DAC value L: -24837 Freq L: 123123
DAC value H: 10417 Freq H: 121148

DAC value L: 10417 Freq L: 121164
DAC value H: -117 Freq H: 123346

DAC value L: -117 Freq L: 123334
DAC value H: 5534 Freq H: 120574

DAC value L: 5534 Freq L: 120601
DAC value H: -9740 Freq H: 121443

DAC value L: -9740 Freq L: 121430
DAC value H: 30565 Freq H: 120929

DAC value L: 30565 Freq L: 120942
DAC value H: 22847 Freq H: 121299

DAC value L: 22847 Freq L: 121294
DAC value H: 23775 Freq H: 122197

DAC value L: 23775 Freq L: 122184
DAC value H: 29267 Freq H: 119960

DAC value L: 29267 Freq L: 119996
DAC value H: -2181 Freq H: 120992

DAC value L: -2181 Freq L: 120980
DAC value H: 30129 Freq H: 120637

DAC value L: 30129 Freq L: 120644
DAC value H: -13735 Freq H: 121548

DAC value L: -13735 Freq L: 121530
DAC value H: -11599 Freq H: 120052

DAC value L: -11599 Freq L: 120082
DAC value H: 30827 Freq H: 121183

DAC value L: 30827 Freq L: 121163
DAC value H: -15790 Freq H: 119995

DAC value L: -15790 Freq L: 120019
DAC value H: 20136 Freq H: 123084

DAC value L: 20136 Freq L: 123046
DAC value H: 4526 Freq H: 119851

DAC value L: 4526 Freq L: 119891
DAC value H: 8787 Freq H: 120033

DAC value L: 8787 Freq L: 120033
DAC value H: 11432 Freq H: 122171

DAC value L: 11432 Freq L: 122132
DAC value H: -8638 Freq H: 122880

DAC value L: -8638 Freq L: 122875
DAC value H: -28679 Freq H: 123507

DAC value L: -28679 Freq L: 123508
DAC value H: -24467 Freq H: 119603

DAC value L: -24467 Freq L: 119656
DAC value H: -26534 Freq H: 121193

DAC value L: -26534 Freq L: 121166
DAC value H: 5377 Freq H: 120526

DAC value L: 5377 Freq L: 120542
DAC value H: 24926 Freq H: 119842

DAC value L: 24926 Freq L: 119858
DAC value H: -11384 Freq H: 120289

DAC value L: -11384 Freq L: 120284
DAC value H: 27498 Freq H: 121824

DAC value L: 27498 Freq L: 121793
DAC value H: 2423 Freq H: 121370

DAC value L: 2423 Freq L: 121373
DAC value H: 12202 Freq H: 123437

DAC value L: 12202 Freq L: 123424
DAC value H: 17196 Freq H: 120158

DAC value L: 17196 Freq L: 120195
DAC value H: 4320 Freq H: 119752

DAC value L: 4320 Freq L: 119773
DAC value H: -2919 Freq H: 120504

DAC value L: -2919 Freq L: 120492
DAC value H: 10768 Freq H: 121534

DAC value L: 10768 Freq L: 121510
DAC value H: -12755 Freq H: 122879

DAC value L: -12755 Freq L: 122867
DAC value H: 9901 Freq H: 120831

DAC value L: 9901 Freq L: 120853
DAC value H: 31392 Freq H: 121631

DAC value L: 31392 Freq L: 121621
DAC value H: 29366 Freq H: 120087

DAC value L: 29366 Freq L: 120119
DAC value H: 1836 Freq H: 120979

DAC value L: 1836 Freq L: 120965
DAC value H: -5465 Freq H: 121649

DAC value L: -5465 Freq L: 121630
DAC value H: -17707 Freq H: 121665

DAC value L: -17707 Freq L: 121665
DAC value H: 4369 Freq H: 119767

DAC value L: 4369 Freq L: 119809
DAC value H: -13521 Freq H: 121789

DAC value L: -13521 Freq L: 121757
DAC value H: 31823 Freq H: 122042

DAC value L: 31823 Freq L: 122033
DAC value H: 30859 Freq H: 121194

DAC value L: 30859 Freq L: 121207
DAC value H: 22681 Freq H: 121220

VOLUME CALIBRATION

Volume Set Frequency: 459986
Frequency tuning range: 570411 to 573341

DAC value L: 0 Freq L: 110400
DAC value H: 4095 Freq H: 113348

DAC value L: 4095 Freq L: 113310
DAC value H: -22282 Freq H: 111691

DAC value L: -22282 Freq L: 111696
DAC value H: 24450 Freq H: 113140

DAC value L: 24450 Freq L: 113114
DAC value H: -9551 Freq H: 111920

DAC value L: -9551 Freq L: 111919
DAC value H: 4629 Freq H: 110723

DAC value L: 4629 Freq L: 110746
DAC value H: 6661 Freq H: 111896

DAC value L: 6661 Freq L: 111858
DAC value H: 5554 Freq H: 111268

DAC value L: 5554 Freq L: 111274
DAC value H: -6606 Freq H: 111361

DAC value L: -6606 Freq L: 111342
DAC value H: 26301 Freq H: 111439

DAC value L: 26301 Freq L: 111425
DAC value H: -15492 Freq H: 110972

DAC value L: -15492 Freq L: 110983
DAC value H: -10286 Freq H: 111610

DAC value L: -10286 Freq L: 111580
DAC value H: -19483 Freq H: 111034

DAC value L: -19483 Freq L: 111037
DAC value H: 10769 Freq H: 111913

DAC value L: 10769 Freq L: 111880
DAC value H: 292 Freq H: 110606

DAC value L: 292 Freq L: 110635
DAC value H: 8205 Freq H: 110481

DAC value L: 8205 Freq L: 110474
DAC value H: -16569 Freq H: 113121

DAC value L: -16569 Freq L: 113059
DAC value H: 9407 Freq H: 111135

DAC value L: 9407 Freq L: 111156
DAC value H: -1570 Freq H: 111881

DAC value L: -1570 Freq L: 111841
DAC value H: -11551 Freq H: 110877

DAC value L: -11551 Freq L: 110887
DAC value H: 20106 Freq H: 112797

DAC value L: 20106 Freq L: 112751
DAC value H: 6027 Freq H: 111520

DAC value L: 6027 Freq L: 111538
DAC value H: -24248 Freq H: 110641

DAC value L: -24248 Freq L: 110662
DAC value H: -18966 Freq H: 111371

DAC value L: -18966 Freq L: 111341
DAC value H: 3296 Freq H: 112330

DAC value L: 3296 Freq L: 112285
DAC value H: -17479 Freq H: 112104

DAC value L: -17479 Freq L: 112092
DAC value H: 30996 Freq H: 111734

DAC value L: 30996 Freq L: 111739
DAC value H: 14570 Freq H: 111726

CALIBRATION COMPTLETED

Posted: 4/21/2020 12:28:27 PM
WS786873

Joined: 12/14/2018

I have built many v3s and encountered many problems. Usually correct automatic adjustment, serial port output will be two digits. If not, there is a problem. As for the situation that the volume does not change, what I have encountered is that the ic4060 is damaged. I haven't found the real reason for the problem that can't be adjusted automatically. I check all the components one by one, and they are all OK. When I replaced the PCB, everything was OK. If you need, I can provide PCB manufacturing documents. I have made some modifications to the original version and removed unnecessary pads.

Posted: 4/21/2020 5:33:35 PM
Thierry

From: Colmar, France

Joined: 12/31/2007

When you look at the calibration process, you see that both variable oscillators, pitch AND volume are running 110 to 120kHz too high, which is beyond the range which is foreseen by design and which can be adjusted with the calibration procedure. Thus it’s logical that the calibration procedure times out without success. The tuning range has to go from set frequency -2kHz to set frequency +2kHz. Since on both sides, you have a ~20% too high frequency, this is an indicator that there is a systematic problem with components in the analog oscillators, such as for example c2, c3, c9, c10 only 100pF instead of 150pF or l1, l2 only 560uH instead of 1mH. 
With correctly built oscillators and well dimensioned antennas, the pitch tuning range is about from 498 to 502 kHz and the volume tuning range from 458 to 562kHz. Without antennas connected, these values are about 5% or ~25kHz higher (which might make the calibration fail) but never as high as you reported.

Posted: 4/21/2020 6:04:57 PM
skinkie

Joined: 4/14/2020

@thierry I read what you write. I have some questions though.

 - could my antenna material or length be the only reason for this 20% too high frequency?
 - is it possible to address this in the software, hence move the allowed frequencies higher?

Posted: 4/21/2020 7:47:53 PM
Valery

From: Russia, Saint-Petersburg

Joined: 6/6/2016

The problem can have many causes, but the length and material of the antennas can significantly affect the quality of the setup.

Posted: 4/21/2020 7:57:51 PM
skinkie

Joined: 4/14/2020

@Valery for me 'quality' would mean the precision with respect to able to play the instrument. I wonder if it would have the major influence the capacitance, the PCB, materials or soldering is more at play.

Posted: 4/22/2020 6:03:32 AM
Thierry

From: Colmar, France

Joined: 12/31/2007

- As I already wrote, the antenna material and geometry is not responsible for such an extreme frequency deviation. Without antennas at all (extreme case) you’ll run 5% high, not 20%.

- Your problem can’t be fixed in software since the reference frequencies (set points) aren’t controlled by it, these come from the 2 xtal oscillators on the shield.

To me, there is no way around checking and fixing or rebuilding your variable oscillators.

Posted: 4/22/2020 8:30:20 AM
skinkie

Joined: 4/14/2020

I am sure I have used the right "labeled" components, that does not mean that the components were labeled right obviously. Could you recommend any path for debugging the issue? With too high, would you recommend ordering new capacitors and redo soldering, or is it more likely that there is a short circuit or what is the best way to check ic4060?

Posted: 4/22/2020 12:12:44 PM
Thierry

From: Colmar, France

Joined: 12/31/2007

I didn’t say that it was your fault, I’ve already seen full batches of wrongly labeled components which were sent to me by a renowned distributor. That’s why I check every single component with a RLC-meter when building circuits by hand.
I pointed you towards the 6 most crucial components which I would unsolder and check, first.
The 4060 ICs (U2 and U3) can be simply checked with an oscilloscope and a frequency counter: Pin 7 of U2 should show a square wave with 5Vp and 500kHz, Pin 7 of U3 the same but at 460.7kHz. If both these are ok, you have several confirmations: 1.) The reference oscillators work both as expected and 2.) The problem is really with both analog LC oscillators and you should proceed as I wrote above. If both these weren’t ok (what I think is very improbable) please write back with the results of your measurements.

Posted: 4/22/2020 12:33:22 PM
skinkie

Joined: 4/14/2020

Thierry do you have any tip to run this board without the arduino attached, so it becomes possible to probe?

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