Open theremin v3 loses calibration

Posted: 2/23/2022 10:06:01 PM
Mr_Dham

From: Occitanie

Joined: 3/4/2012


After playing for maybe 20 minutes the playable field around the pitch antenna is so small or big (depends on every piece) that the re-calibration is necessary. -Moonlightdog-

You make me curious. I considered such thermal drift as normal on my OTV3. That said, my enclosure is probably not optimal and my music room is not climate stable at all.

Well, I just ordered an OTV4 (I need to get the MIDI code out of beta status and to test it myself).
I'm currious to see if this unit will have less themal drift (other component batch, single board, no enclosure, ... ). Wait and see...

Posted: 2/25/2022 9:05:40 PM
dewster

From: Northern NJ, USA

Joined: 2/17/2012

"I considered such thermal drift as normal on my OTV3."  - Mr_Dham

I don't own an OT, but 20 minutes to unplayable / recal seems like a large amount of rather fast drifting.  Vincent, how does your D-Lev compare here?

Posted: 2/25/2022 9:56:44 PM
Mr_Dham

From: Occitanie

Joined: 3/4/2012


On my Open Theremin V3:

20 minutes, it is probably exagerating.
Thermal drift pushes me to recalibrate it automatically after some time at least to re-center potentiometer action. Especially during the summer.
I need to say that I live in the south of France where summer is very warm and my music room is sometime prone to great temperature amplitude during the day.

My Open Theremin stays playable anyway. And it is not a problem for me to spend one minute to re-calibrate it from time to time.

My D-LEV looks more stable but I didn't test it under warm condition yet. Auto CALibration (ACAL) being instantaneous, I can perform it at no cost.

Posted: 2/26/2022 10:04:44 AM
moonlightdog

Joined: 1/18/2021

No, I am not exagerating. Really after 20 or even fewer minutes, it is almost unplayable. Now I have no time to resolder the components but I write here my thoughts after I'll be done with it.

Maybe later I try to build OTV4 you mentioned above and look if it is a better circuit.

Posted: 2/26/2022 2:09:31 PM
Mr_Dham

From: Occitanie

Joined: 3/4/2012

"20 minutes, it is probably exagerating."-> I was just speaking about my own case, I was not denying your experience.


OTV4 has some interesting enhancements (other than CV/Gate): 

  Single board including the arduino, power supply, etc. :
    It avoids problems related to poor arduino clones.
    Maybe it is good in term of thermal dissipation not to have components sandwiched between the Arduino and the shield ?

  The same quartz is used for Picth reference oscillator, sample clock and Atmega328P clock.
  I imagine that it has some positive influence on several things ?

Posted: 2/26/2022 2:18:22 PM
Thierry

From: Colmar, France

Joined: 12/31/2007

Every theremin oscillator has a little thermal drift, especially after powering it on until all components are on working temperature. While a slow drift of 0.1% over a few minutes is tolerable in many RF applications, a theremin oscillator running at 500kHz and drifting by 500Hz makes the instrument unplayable. That’s why many thereminists pre-heat their instruments by switching them on about 15 to 30 minutes before playing depending on the instrument, because once the thermal working point (balance between heating up through power dissipation and ambient temperature) reached, the drift is reduced by several orders of magnitude. Calibrated or tuned after warming up, the field will remain much more stable. This applies to the open.theremin v3 and v4 (where the RF circuit parts are nearly identical, so no major difference to expect), but also to the Moog Etherwave Standard and Plus Theremins, and even the famous Russian tVox tour.

While in most other RF circuits, additional things can be done to stabilize oscillators, using PLL techniques, Xtal references or just simple AFC circuits, all this can not be used in classic heterodyning theremins because the principle of operation requires that the oscillator frequencies are easily bendable by very small capacitance changes. The advantage of the heterodyning principle is that the effect of oscillator drift can be reduced by having the oscillators drifting but in a coupled way, so that both might drift up or down together, by keeping always the same difference (heterodyning) frequencies. You can find such designs in professional instruments like the Etherwave Pro, but it should be understood that it has a more than 20 times higher price tag than an open.theremin.

With the ~130€ for a readily built OTv4, you get a similar playability and functionality as with a 550€ Moog Etherwave Plus theremin and you are above the 300€ Moog Theremini. So, be happy with what you have built at an advantageous price and give it the required 15 to 20 minutes to warm up before calibrating it as you would also have to do with more expensive instruments.

BTW: My main instrument wich I use for daily practicing and for teaching is always set up and powered on in my music room, so that whenever I want to play, I need just to power the amplifier and do fine tune it by one or two mm with the pitch and volume knobs. That saves time! ;-) 

Posted: 2/26/2022 3:07:58 PM
Mr_Dham

From: Occitanie

Joined: 3/4/2012

Yes, let's keep our theremins permanently powered-on, warmed-up and ready to play and to enjoy. That probably worth for any instrument.

Edit-> Today's experience under stable temperature condition with my OTV3:
  Autocalibration just after power on at T0
  Limit of fine tune reached at T0+15 mn
  2nd autocalibration at T0+20mn
  No need to recalibrate after
  "Stable state" seem to be reached at T0+35mn. 
It finaly looks like a rather normal warm-up curve, effectively ...

Posted: 2/26/2022 9:11:46 PM
Thierry

From: Colmar, France

Joined: 12/31/2007

Thank you, Vincent, for this feedback !

Apparently, it makes sometimes sense to listen to an old fart who builds, repairs and services theremins for more than 10 years and who has disassembled and reverse-engineered more different theremin models than anyone else… 

La prochaine fois que je descendrai dans le sud, il faudra qu’on se voie et que je te paye une bière ! 

Posted: 2/26/2022 10:19:20 PM
Mr_Dham

From: Occitanie

Joined: 3/4/2012

C'est avec plaisir que je boirai un coup avec toi. Dans le sud si tu passes vers Montpellier ou Nîmes :-)
Sinon, il faudra bien un jour que j'aille faire un tour à une theremin accademy pour rencontrer d'autres thereministes...

Maybe send me a private message on Thereminworld to continue this conversation...

Posted: 2/27/2022 6:35:30 PM
Mr_Dham

From: Occitanie

Joined: 3/4/2012

Today's experience... Theremin Powered ON, 24 Hours later.

I wanted to auto calibrate once or twice today to recenter potentiometer action.
But nothing bothering to my eyes, I always go to auto calibration first to center the potentiometer action.
Then I adapt pots to my playing (I have my own marks)

Calibration parameter are stored in EEPROM (forever), known my tunning aproach, this feature always puzzled me.

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