Moog Theremini!

Posted: 2/2/2014 11:44:31 PM
GordonC

From: Croxley Green, Hertfordshire, UK

Joined: 10/5/2005

It seems possible to me that some of the disappointment expressed on this thread stems from the hope that Moog would expand their range of theremins by producing another high-end theremin, comparable to their previous forays into the classical theremin market, the Etherwave Pro and the Ethervox. The appearance off the theremini does make this seem less likely.

Undoubtedly this is a business decision. Both of Moog's excursions into the classical theremin market were very short-lived. We can safely guess that they were not profitable. So they made a product that appeals to their established customer base, the electronic and experimental musician. They know these customers well, and will most likely sell several shed-loads of thereminis, validating their decision.

Will this impinge on the classical market? I doubt it. Outside of existing classical thereminists I doubt that many classical musicians have the slightest interest in Moog's antics, or attend NAMM, or follow Synthtopia or Create Digital Music or any of the other electronic music blogs. Rather they will continue to discover the theremin by hearing Clara Rockmore on the radio or whatever other routes they have discovered it in the past. And I think they will find good news when they go looking for more information - that the best place to get a high quality instrument is not from a business that does not know the classical market, but from a dedicated and skilled craftsman with a classical sensibility, a theremin luthier who cares more about quality than profitability and who is able to create an instrument fitted to their individual requirements.

Posted: 2/3/2014 6:40:11 AM
FredM

From: Eastleigh, Hampshire, U.K. ................................... Fred Mundell. ................................... Electronics Engineer. (Primarily Analogue) .. CV Synths 1974-1980 .. Theremin developer 2007 to present .. soon to be Developing / Trading as WaveCrafter.com . ...................................

Joined: 12/7/2007

 

"but I don't think we have talked about the adjustable pitch range." - GordonC

You are right, Gordon - And IMO this is feature thats of far more value and importance than anything else in the theremini - IF it has the ability to adjust the span so one can have say 3 octaves in a 60cm playing field, or 5 octaves in this field, then this will do more to make real playing easier for newbees than auto-pitch or tuning display IMO.

I have seen variable span as of major importance and spoken of this in the past - its something not easy to implement with conventional theremin topology - One needs to seperate the front-end (antenna and sensing circuits) from the sound engine - as the 91 series and now the theremini do - Splitting functions like this leads to having sound engines which dont use heterodyning.. But it is possible to drive a heterodyning engine and get the best of all worlds (this has been my direction).

 Moogs failure IMO has been to ignore a critical spin off of the split topology - particularly if you have a digital voice. - Produce an instrument with variable pitch 'span' (great!) and tuning display (questionable importance, but ok) and pitch correction (hated, but can be turned off so ok) - But leave out any kind of pitch preview ??????

Oh - the reason pitch preview is ommitted is probably because its not possible to obtain it! - I suspect the whole digital audio signal is generated as a composite - there are no "musical" heterodyning signals one could tap - there simply is no way to get "pre-VCA" audio.. (or at least no way without adding another digital voice in the processor - one which bypasses pitch correction and amplitude modulation, and feeds its own DAC - the best hope is probably that a spare pin is available on the processor, and that a preview square wave could be output on this.. ) 

I also suspect that even with an external AM radio you couldnt find any frequencies relating to the audio the theremini produces.

Unlike the EW, I suspect there is no way the theremini can be modified to produce preview (or at least not without a substantial code change and extra hardware) .. If this is true, then the theremini is nearly useless to a large number of thereminists. certainly useless to any who depend on preview for precision playing - Even auto-tune doesnt help, because without preview there is no way to get precise timing when using auto-tuning.

Lets hope I am wrong, and this has all been done and a header on the board is ready to be taken to a earphone socket...

Fred.

Posted: 2/3/2014 4:30:59 PM
GordonC

From: Croxley Green, Hertfordshire, UK

Joined: 10/5/2005

There are plenty of audio-outs on the theremini - the headphone out might be repurposable, but I think the second line-out is a safer bet - the software can access it for the ping-pong delay. (Which is a whole other question - did they really build in a whole extra line-out just for a frankly rather silly function? I haven't heard any mention of it being used for any other purpose but surely there must be more to it than that.)

My hope is that the software is accessible and open source (i.e. hackable.) A modern equivalent to the etherwave hotrodding manual.

Posted: 2/3/2014 7:27:39 PM
Thierry

From: Colmar, France

Joined: 12/31/2007

Gordon, as far as I know they've filed patents for the Animoog synthesis engine. Thus I fear that the theremini software will be neither accessible nor open source nor hackable...

If you want something "open" I suggest you go for the Open.Theremin. I didn't have enough free time the last weekend to build mine, but I'll do so as soon as I can. Basically it seems to be the same approach as the theremini but you are free to modify every parameter in a (also free and open) IDE and to re-flash it as often as you want. 

The actual firmware (1.2) its still very young and sometimes a bit difficult to understand because the Arduino sketch language is almost not used, many things are done in C inline code to manipulate directly the timer and interrupt registers, and a very time critical routine (multiplication of the actual wavetable value, a 16bit unsigned integer with the volume value, a 8bit unsigned integer) is even implemented in assembler language.

But there is headroom in the program memory. I've already ideas on how to implement a register switch, the ability to choose between several preset timbres, and about optimizing the correction functions for a still more linear pitch field and a still more musical (and perhaps adjustable) volume response... It's just about fiddling these routines into the main code without troubling the I/O timing...

Posted: 2/3/2014 7:49:04 PM
GordonC

From: Croxley Green, Hertfordshire, UK

Joined: 10/5/2005

Thiery, my programming skills have about three decades of rust on them and do not include C. Rather I hope that the theremini software is accessible so that other people will be able to make alternatives to the Animoog synthesis engine.

Posted: 2/3/2014 10:42:26 PM
FredM

From: Eastleigh, Hampshire, U.K. ................................... Fred Mundell. ................................... Electronics Engineer. (Primarily Analogue) .. CV Synths 1974-1980 .. Theremin developer 2007 to present .. soon to be Developing / Trading as WaveCrafter.com . ...................................

Joined: 12/7/2007

"There are plenty of audio-outs on the theremini - the headphone out might be repurposable, but I think the second line-out is a safer bet - the software can access it for the ping-pong delay. (Which is a whole other question - did they really build in a whole extra line-out just for a frankly rather silly function? I haven't heard any mention of it being used for any other purpose but surely there must be more to it than that.)" - GordonC

If there are more than one fully independent outputs (as in full DAC outputs, not just independent amplitude control) then reconfigurability would probably be possible.. It all comes down to how many independant DACs are available - Any more than one, and preview should be possible.

But I agree, its unlikely that ping-pong employs a dedicated chip, and therefore its likely that the main processor drives two DACs to facilitate it - If its a true delay and not just sequencing of DCA's following a single DAC...

I doubt that Moog will give access to their engine though (looks to me like the days of Moog releasing even circuit diagrams or service manuals is long gone), or that hackers will be able to get into it, particularly if your prior (pausable)  suggestion that Moog may use this engine as a way to make money from selling patches / sound libraries.

Anyway - I think the storm has passed, and its getting a bit dull just watching the rain roll bye and speculating about where the storm will go ;-)  So ill not be saying any more about the theremini (did I hear someone shout "Yeah! about bloody time"! ;-) unless the storm changes direction and heads back here...

Oh, and Randy - Please post your first-hand real life expieriences of the theremini soon! - I promise I wont say anything on that thread - At the end of the day its the musicians and thereminists who will decide whether the theremini is fit for musicians and thereminists, not engineers!

Fred.

Posted: 2/4/2014 12:33:40 PM
coalport

From: Canada

Joined: 8/1/2008

Gordon wrote: "I have a distinct memory of Coalport stating that one of the strengths of the RCA theremin is that it has a pitch range of only a few octaves, greatly facilitating precision playing. It seems to me that this will be more instrumental in generally improving the quality of precision playing of thereminists using the theremini that the pitch assistance."

 

The RCA theremin has a range of three and a half octaves (the range of a cello) and yes, I am probably the person who pointed out the obvious fact that this makes the instrument easier to play. The more notes you cram into your playing arc, the more pinched your linearity will be, and the more difficult your instrument will be to control with precision.

 

Clara Rockmore used to say that modern thereminists were too "greedy" and demanded far too great a range for their instruments. Bob Moog found the solution to the range/linearity problem by coming up with the low-mid-high range selector but you must select the range before you begin to play. It will not give you an uninterrupted continuous pitch sweep over the entire instrument.

 

 

 

 

 

Posted: 2/5/2014 12:19:48 AM
dewster

From: Northern NJ, USA

Joined: 2/17/2012

"Sorry for the delay... and the added suspense. I'm in the middle of hopping and skipping in LA.  i've got a bunch of text written.  I've just gotta organize it."  - randy george

Hurry up already, or the Baguette from Space gets it...

(I was going to say "is toast"...)

Posted: 2/5/2014 2:08:34 AM
GordonC

From: Croxley Green, Hertfordshire, UK

Joined: 10/5/2005

Dewster - I love it.

Yeah, Randy, quit loafing around. ;-)

Posted: 2/5/2014 7:58:35 AM
GordonC

From: Croxley Green, Hertfordshire, UK

Joined: 10/5/2005

If you've been following this thread and haven't looked at the front page theremini news story in a while, do so. Thomas Grillo has posted some fascinating info gleaned from Moog.

http://www.thereminworld.com/Article/15138/new-hybrid-theremin-from-moog

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