Moog Theremini!

"... if the theremin is the best instrument on which to be playing the piece in the first place. The answer is often a resounding NO!"" - Coalport

Doesnt the above also beg some other questions as well - particularly for someone who hasnt developed, through lots of practice and devotion (+innate ability) to the level of  only a few "precision" thereminists .. Is the theremin really a practical "best" instrument for any piece other than 'experimental' or as a "suplimental" effects type addition to acompany music produced with more easily played instruments  ?

I suspect that the vast majority of people who want to play the theremin dont have any interest in devoting a large % of their time to mastering it - and for them question of whether "the theremin is the best instrument on which to be playing the piece " is moot anyway, because even if the answer is "yes" they could not do the piece justice because they lack the playing ability to do so... For the majority of people, even pieces ideally suited to the theremin are beyond their ability.. or certainly beyond their ability to produce music anyone else is likely to enjoy.

And this is where the new breed of "theremins" appeal - because they offer this majority (whether with aspirations to classical or whatever) the idea (which I think is mostly if not completely delusory) that they will be able to play the theremin with only a fraction of the skill required to really master the theremin - and that the instrument will also open the door to allow them to play other difficult instruments, synthesised, without the "required" effort... And the cherry on top is that they can pride themselves in the belief that they are "mastering" this "difficult" instrument (or at least they can until you tube fills up with so many new "thereminists" that their lifeless autotuned renditions become common as muck)

I think that enabling people to create music without excessive effort required to master an instrument would be wonderful -

But I dont think pitch correction / autotuning of a theremin input mechanism will do this, I dont think the theremin is the right instrument to enable this sort of fantasy, I dont think we are yet at the point where practical realization of this dream is within sight, and I think that, apart from personal delusory satisfaction (which I think would be of great benefit to individuals and would applaud) even if such an instrument was available, music wouldnt be advanced, and people like me would still want to see / hear "real" creative musicians playing their instruments well.

And I think the RCA claims for the theremin as an instrument anyone could create music on are probably similar to the present promotions for the new breed of theremins, and both are equally laughable and equally false...

Fred.

I present to you, the baguetophone:

http://www.instructables.com/id/Theremin-based-Musical-Baguette/

I like the last comment: "Finally!"

I also like the spooky male voice around 1:30.

So this guy basically beat Moog to the baguette-shaped draw by like a year.  And it's got a piezo too!

Based on this:

http://interface.khm.de/index.php/lab/experiments/theremin-as-a-capacitive-sensing-device/

4MHz operating point.

"I present to you, the baguetophone:" - Dewster

That looks like a half baked idea to me...

Fred asked: "Is the theremin really a practical "best" instrument for any piece other than 'experimental' or as a "suplimental" effects type addition to acompany music produced with more easily played instruments  ?"

The answer to this question is YES. The theremin is not only the best instrument for certain pieces of music, depending on the particular sound you are looking for, it is the only instrument. 

Dr. Maurice Martenot asked himself this very question back in the late 1920's, decided that the answer was NO, and went about adapting the theremin to the keyboard and ribbon device we know today as the "ondes". Unfortunately, Dr. Martenot threw out the baby with the bath water when he rejected "space control" ("le jeu à distance") and replaced it with more reliable and more easily controlled contact devices.

Yes, the theremin is by far the most difficult instrument to play accurately and precisely, but it has a certain exquisite, "magical", quality that only the human voice possesses. The ondes does not have this quality, it was rejected along with 'space control', and consequently the instrument has become obsolete. 

As an instrument for "experimental" and avant garde music, the theremin is as old hat as the charleston! Those who use it for the creation of something musically new and different are doing the same thing "experimentalists" were doing 80 years ago. 

Precision thereminists, on the other hand, are not trying to be "new" or "relevant" or "revolutionary" - they're just trying to play on key (something with which experimentalists need not concern themselves).

"When we come to the concept of the avant garde or electronic music, I must say I don't understand it. It means nothing to me. Most of it is just sound effects." SPELLBOUND composer Miklos Rozsa

"I wonder if theyl find Lennin in that skip ? ;-)" -- FredM

Did you mean Lenin aka Vladimir, the first fan of theremin or Lennon aka John, who yesterday imagined that electric guitar is better instrument than theremin?

Coalport wrote <opinions about experimental music> 

Sorry to disappoint, but I'm rather busy this evening, so this fish ain't biting. I refer the honorable member to our previous discussions.

"Did you mean Lenin aka Vladimir, the first fan of theremin" - Ilya

Yes, thats who I meant, sorry for my spelling error.. Lev had hopes to preserve Lenin's remains (particularly brain) and bring him back to life.. If the stories are to be believed.

"Unfortunately, Dr. Martenot threw out the baby with the bath water when he rejected "space control" ("le jeu à distance") and replaced it with more reliable and more easily controlled contact devices." - Coalport

To me, the question is which was the baby and which was the bath water - Yes, I agree with the statement, but am inclined to think that the "baby" which was thrown out was the sound of the theremin - the bathwater, I think, is probably the "space control".

I am not fully apostate yet - not sure if there is "something" ( The "certain exquisite, "magical", quality that only the human voice possesses."- ") obtainable with "space control" which cannot be obtained by any other means... But I am reasonably certain that this "something" (if it exists) has only been "exploited" by quite a tiny number of people - I would guess at less than 50 in total since the theremin was invented.. And listening to these, its the vocal qualities which set the theremin apart - and these qualities are most  musical IMO from instruments designed and built by Lev himself.. And I see nothing that ties these qualities to the technoogy of long-range space control.

Honestly, I dont know - you may be completely correct - it may be some factor about "space control" that actually gives a unique wonderful sound when combined with a class theremin, and which could not be obtained through any other player interface..

Or it may be that Dr Martenot was right, but failed for other reasons to demonstrate this.. I think also that (until now) there probably hasnt been any non-space-control mechanism which allowed as much liquidity of movement as the theremin does - close, but not quite the same.

I do think that space-control is ideally suited to experimental music - but I have a problem believing it is really the best solution for almost any other genre.

Fred.

Fweddie: ".... it may be some factor about "space control" that actually gives a unique wonderful sound when combined with a class theremin"

The closest I have come to my ideal theremin sound has been through the recent addition of the RCA 106 electrodynamic loudspeaker to the RCA theremin. Other theremins (Moog Series 91, Ethervox, Etherwave, E'Pro, etc.) do not come close to it. I am even prepared to put up with the low frequency hum that comes with these units.

What distinguishes "space control" from other forms of other forms of musical instrument control is the complete absence of friction. Space control is FLIGHT while keyboards, ribbons, dials, mod wheels, etc., are travel by rail. Yes, flight is more risky but the view from the heavens is spectacular.

Here's a new question. What about composers? 

We have heard from engineers and players, with a variety of interesting opinions, but there are a few people who compose for theremin - I wonder how they feel about the theremini.

My guess is that a theremin-friendly composer would be interested in the possibilities it offers, and utilise them.

Let's look at "pitch assistance" first - we have noted that, as an effect, it reduces the expressiveness of the instrument - not removes it completely, half of the magic is in the expression loop - however, I note that plucking a violin reduces its expressiveness compared to bowing, but sometimes it is the right choice for a composition. So we might well see pieces that call for it.

Now the various voices the theremini offers. I can understand a sentimental attachment to the classical theremin timbre, but composers compose for a whole variety of instruments without being fixated on any one of them, so again the criteria is "right choice for the composition," suggesting that we could see compositions that call for a different voice. 

And finally the theremin's place in an orchestra. With its traditional timbre that can rise above an entire orchestra and its lack of sociability with other theremins, it puts itself front and centre in any ensemble. So much so that we don't bother to say "lead theremin" - "lead" is implicit. But if Thomas' assertion on the front page article that thereminis do not significantly interfere with one another is correct, then this not need to be the case. Especially when played with other, less penetrating timbres. 

<snicker> I wonder how some of our more prima-donna-ish precision thereminists would feel about being relegated to the chorus. ;-)

OT. NOT about the Theremini!

"What distinguishes "space control" from other forms of other forms of musical instrument control is the complete absence of friction. Space control is FLIGHT while keyboards, ribbons, dials, mod wheels, etc., are travel by rail." - Coalport

Yes, I agree.. (Up to a point - *)

Which is why I am going down the "Maglev" route - A "Ribbon" you dont need to touch, but can touch lightly or grip .. A combination of flight and precision.. the advantages of the train (learning to drive a train is easier than learning to fly a plane, and you dont get lost so easily) with the advantages of the plane.. Ok.. No pilot who can fly a plane is likely to get as much satisfaction driving a train as they do from flying.... ;-) But those who cannot fly can get closer to this feeling, and the passengers will get to their destination... If the passengers have their eyes closed, they may not realize they havent been on a plane..

But back to the theme - baby and bathwater.. I suspect that (other than for dramatic / visual effect) "space control" is mostly "bathwater"... Ok, because there wasnt any other "water",  retaining it in the theremin was (and at present is) essential..

But this is only because (IMO) the alternative control methods were mechanical - The technology to implement a linear capacitive ribbon was probably there in the 20's, it just wasnt thought of..

I suppose I am still "endorsing" "space control" - Just not long-distance, far-field control.. To me, the problems both technically and from a playing perspective make the theremins interface almost as far from ideal as is possible.

Imagine a capacitive touch screen 2cm in width and 80cm in length, with primary pitch controlled by moving your finger or hand along this length - its sensitive to distance over about 10mm and one can do about 1 semitone modulation on a distance basis, its sensitive to area, so one finger close to the ribbon gives lower pitch than having the whole hand on the ribbon.. One can play it almost like a keyboard, and two fingers stretched on the ribbon can give sweeping over an octave...

Now, combine the above 80 cm ribbon with an analogue instrument using heterodyning, and I think one has perhaps, at last, really thrown out the bath water, retained the baby, and got the best of all worlds.

ALL of that was possible many decades ago - but instead of looking,the instinct of the time was to go for mechanical solutions, and the one person who could have invented this was into long range, no-touch space control - he was its father..

*I really think that the number of musicians who usefully exploit the lack of friction, is tiny.. And I also think that friction and associated tactile feedback has advantages .. IMO, any and every "good" musician can "fly" with their instrument, be this a theremin, a piccolo, a synthesiser or a Grand.

Fred.