Build Project: Dewster's D-Lev Digital Theremin

"Has a prototype ever been tested by one of the approved professional theremin players like for example Lydia Kavina, Carolina Eyck, Thorwald Jorgensen or Peter Pringle and have their critics and optimization suggestions (as musicians) been taken into account?"  - Thierry

I think the next big step may be some sort of loaner unit.  I'm anxious to get it into the hands of professional players, and would certainly be open to their observations and requests.  Roger has given me incredible feedback and suggestions, much of which has been incorporated into the D-Lev - I think it takes someone on the order of a builder / player / EE (a really tiny Venn-diagram intersection) to understand what's going on enough to provide specific, focused, genuinely constructive criticism; though of course the customer, with whatever background they have, is always right.

Thierry, whether or not you consider yourself to be an "approved professional player," given your extensive background and experience, I'd probably be more interested in your reactions to playing it than most others!

"Has a prototype ever been tested by one of the approved professional theremin players like for example Lydia Kavina, Carolina Eyck, Thorwald Jorgensen or Peter Pringle and have their critics and optimization suggestions (as musicians) been taken into account?"  - Thierry

Approved by whom?  You?  I'm sorry, but I heard this too often.

This seems to be a cry that we have heard from you in the past often when others attempt to engage in discussion of technical concepts.  I don't know what your intentions or motivations are, but I can tell you how I have perceive it as a longtime reader of this forum, and I can tell you that this isn't a good look for you.  Free discussion is stifled when someone comes in and makes even the slightest suggestion that ideas that aren't "field proven" shouldn't be discussed publicly, which is exactly what you have done in the past  Are you here to moderate and approve technical discussions?

Look Thierry, I have the advantage of knowing a little more about you than you know about me.  I have been following this forum for years, and I have seen many members come and go, in some cases because of pretty clear personality conflicts. And this board has had, in my opinion, more than its per-capita share of strong personalities, and dare I say, egos. I have a very strong respect for for your experience with a broad array of theremins and your knowledge of the sciences.  And you have the connections with all of the people that you have name-dropped.

But as strong as my respect for your technical knowledge is, including a mastery of English that exceeds that of our own citizens, I have an almost equal disdain for the cold water that you sometimes throw on ideas that didn't come from you, or from people that you perceive as a threat or that may have have crossed into your territory in the past.

I'm not here to defend my project or Dewster, but it's pretty clear that you've been burning over what has become the D-Lev project for some time, since the day that you declared that you would be recusing yourself from any further discussions. I'm sure your contributions would have been welcomed, but if you don't want to be a technical leader, the world will go on without you.  I will say to Dewster's credit that he has engaged in a pretty amazing tireless and often thankless open discussion of theremin concepts on this forum, and offered all of his work up for critique.  He deserves to be commended for this, even if you don't agree with some of the efforts.

For my part, I'm not selling or marketing theremins.  I'm merely posting and discussing that I am doing on a forum that isn't really seeing a lot of new activity and could stand some new blood.  The D-Lev is what it is, but I happen to think it's pretty great.  And I don't give a crap if you think it hasn't been properly qualified by approved musicians, with all due respect.

I am not [one of the approved professional theremin players like for example Lydia Kavina, Carolina Eyck, Thorwald Jorgensen or Peter Pringle . . . 

How sweet it is!

Cliques are so high school. Aspiring to being the "best" requires far too much practice and conformity. I'd rather be great, rather than the best, far less competition, and one has all the slack one could desire.

Thierry passes judgment on that which he has no experience with or knowledge of, and that is EXTREMELY common among the OCD precision classical theremin community. Genius does have its downside, as I well know. Everyone here should know that.

Too much practice and conformity leads to personality disorders, which have plagued the theremin community ever since I noticed levnet. OCD comes in many forms, which is one reason I hardly ever play. One's own OCD is seldom compatible with someone else's, ergo, rancor, snobbery and exclusionary delusions. Yep, I got banned from levnet, apparently pirating FCP was what levnet considered a GOOD and PROPER THING.

Luckily for me, I am skirting on the theremin OCD for the past two weeks now with one important safety valve - while I can produce well over an hour's worth of ersatz orchestral pieces in one day, converting them to video requires 10-20 hours of labor.

I can stop playing now and edit for the next three months. (or can I???)

POOR, POOR ME.

BTW - Charlie Draper is the best classical thereminist IMO

Anyone who doesn't have to use vibrato is a darn good thereminist in my opinion, which leaves out a few of them "professionals" . . .

And Charlie only uses vibrato when he wants to.

Dewster:

If you want Clara Rockmore, go right ahead.

If you want everything else, I know how to make the most of a theremin, more than anyone else.

National Electrophonic - everything that can be done with a theremin. Musically, that is.

I have to say that, as a hobbyist and novice player I find this row confusing. 
-Dewster is working on a new design, which he's quite proud of 
-Thierry opines that for the project to produce a useful instrument, Dewster will need the collaboration of professional-level musicians (of which there are few)
-Dewster agrees, says he would love to provide one of his instrument to such a musician so he can get feedback, and also would like Thierry's own reaction as a player and e-luthier 

So...what's the problem? If I wanted drama I'd go back to reddit 

We all live in our own orbit, occasionally bumping into one another.

Some may use a translator once in a while for clarity.  dewster has been on his project approaching ten years, not six months. clogging up the google database with little that works or anyone else would want to build. There is no easy way for a boss to tell someone "it is time for a vacation". Come back when you have something that works properly and can be "demonstrated", I interpret this is what Thierry is asking for. Ever since dew got that big ugly dog, that even bites him, why would anyone join him on his front porch?

Christopher

"I have to say that, as a hobbyist and novice player I find this row confusing."  - bendra

It's likely that you haven't been here long enough to gauge these things.  Lotsa water under the bridge and, as you can see above, the water never stops.  Cynically, it's Sayre's Law writ exceedingly small: "In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake."

Though players can quite rationally have intense feelings about their instruments, and I don't mean to minimize that, even in jest.

"So...what's the problem? If I wanted drama I'd go back to reddit" - Bendra

If you had been around long enough to follow the evolution of Dewster's design, or if you are genuinely interested in digging into the archives to understand what is going on here, you would find that the issue is not as simple and innocent as you have stated in your bullet points.  There is more than meets your eye, and what you are seeing is not negativity initiated toward others, but a pushback on negativity toward Dewster (and now me, by association). 

My reaction to Thierry's comment may appear to be unduly harsh, but this "engineer-versus-musician" separation that he draws has been a recurring theme.  Granted, there are plenty of instances where this argument has merit, but I think that he is applying that prejudice too broadly, and in some cases to those about whom he knows nothing.  It would be the same as suggesting that a mathematician is incapable of designing a theremin, which could be generally true but might cause Thierry to take umbrage. 

Nobody needs me to tell them that Thierry has pretty much been the master of the theremin universe here, and what he means to all of us. He has helped many here, and me as well, and in a friendly and positive manner.  I have great admiration for him in many respects.

But Thierry can also be pretty strongly opinionated, not in a positive way, as he has toward Dewster, in particular ever since Dewster published the YAEWSBM that caused a bit of a row itself.  Dewster is no dummy, and his D-Lev design did not evolve in a vacuum.  Of course it would be a huge step to see it endorsed by a "professional musician" known in the theremin community.  But suggesting that a design is not really valid until field tested when it is pointedly obvious that it is barely into the prototype stage is not helpful.  I would be curious to know exactly how many product design cycles Thierry has been involved with, from initial circuit design to final product qualification and transition to production and marketing.

For me personally, I will say that I have never felt the need to "take on" anyone in any forum, anywhere, until now.  My totally informal association with Dewster on the D-Lev project has somehow made me a target of the personal jabs that Dewster has been absorbing for years.  I have followed this website for years, and I have watched fun and positive contributors come and go, to the point that this forum appears in its death throes, and I can think of some instances where it was clear that some of the stronger personalities here caused some bad feelings. 

I've even been around long enough to remember when Christopher (oldtemecula above, also under RStheremin and a few other aliases) used to engage in topics without being a recurring passive-aggressive prick toward Dewster, and more recently me, every chance he gets.

So yes Bendra, (and Thierry, if you are reading this), nobody wants drama here.  To reiterate, I have great respect and admiration for Thierry, but I hope that he understands that there might be others here that deserve some respect as well.  I don't want to discourage critiques of my own work, because it encourages more objective thinking and can be immensely helpful to lead ideas in different directions.  But as an electrical engineer since 1980 in both military and commercial sectors I'm also pretty adept at seeing through interpersonal BS, and I don't think it belongs there or here.  I simply want to be able to post theremin-related topics that might be of general interest, without causing ridiculous controversy.  This website could certainly benefit from more activity.

A few years old, but may still have the technical redactor's opinion on this forum:
https://theremin.tf/en/related-websites/thereminworld-com-2/#more-123

dewster this Pitt is not your friend and will get your privilege to be part of the TW database deleted, wake up. I have never put down any theremin model as each has something to learn from it and I know how hard it is to get there.

When I ask, what does a theremin sound like, to most this is a fair question as it reveals a lot.

Christopher