Moog Theremini!

Thanks for linking to this video -- though it stands as another video that presents the Theremini as a poorly-calibrated noise-maker.

Thanks for that link, Randy!

Ok - I am now puzzled..  My understanding from prior posts was that the theremini said it could go down to C1(32Hz), but in fact played an octave higher - making the lowest note C2 (64Hz).

However, I am sure I heard the bass in this demo go well below 64Hz - I would guess at least to 32Hz, but in some places I could swear even lower than that.

It is possibly a psycho-acoustic effect I suppose - theres so much delay / reverb its impossible to hear the source sounds, and possible that the delay is producing sub-bands I am hearing.. Or perhaps the sample being replayed has amplitude modulation that transposes down?

Can anyone advise on this? Is it possible to produce a note / frequency below 64Hz on the theremini?

Fred.

I am pasting that video here, I think its real informative:

"Can anyone advise on this? Is it possible to produce a note / frequency below 64Hz on the theremini?"  - FredM

In my testing I was using the "01 CLASSIC THRMIN" preset, which is an octave higher than the pitch limits indicate.  Trying some of the other presets, it seems many are pitched differently as to their octaves.  Setting the lowest note to C1 and using the preset "12 ALL YOUR BASS" I can get what sounds like ~3Hz out of it. 

Sorry for the confusion, it seems the synth engine has octave offsets of its own (that you can't access via the UI).  It didn't occur to me to check for that.

" it seems the synth engine has octave offsets of its own (that you can't access via the UI)" - Dewster

LOL ;-)

Ok - that solves that one.. Bottom line then is that the displayed pitch could be right for some presets, show higher for some, and show lower for others.. Cool! ;-)

What puzzles me is why, when Rich inquires from Moog about this matter, isn't that simple answer returned? .. You know, I am starting to wonder - is this actually a Moog design? Did they perhaps get offered to buy in some Chinese or whatever designed product and market this? ... There is nothing AFAICS remotely "Moog" about any of the theremini hardware  - and nobody at Moog seems to know the first damn thing about the toy. This toy is really too bad to have been thrown together by any EE who knows anything about any electronic musical instrument - but its the kind of shit thrown together by mass market electronic toy manufacturers who dont have a clue.

Its not your place to say "Sorry for the confusion" - There's a goddamn pitch display on the bloody thing! - The "sorry" (or at least a sensible explanation as you have given) should be coming from Moog.

Fred.

@Fred Like I pointed out earlier on this thread, the Theremini synth engine has a transpose function (-64 - +63 semitones more than 5 octaves up/down) that can be accessed via MIDI CC102. The sounds in the preset bank are not all in the same sounding octave. Bass sounds are usually transposed an octave down etc. The usual sort of behavior you would expect from a synthesizer really. The tuner display does not show the actual sounding pitch either. If you hold a note and then transpose it via MIDI, the tuner does not react to it at all. It seems to work directly off the scaled control data that drives the synth engine. The transpose parameter lies within the synth engine.

@Amey I would strongly recommend trying one out before considering buying one. Many of the sounds are very good classic synth sounds but unfortunately the instrument plays and reacts very badly. It is by far the most unplayable "theremin" (for melodic work) I've ever encountered. It also fails as an instrument for effects and experimental stuff because it reacts so incredibly slowly to rapid hand gestures.

I've had the high / low controller-side pitch limits set rather high to accentuate pitch noise / bobble to my ears, otherwise I might have noticed the various differences in octaves amongst the various presets.  Tragic (for my brain) that it took that video to point it out to me.

I'm sure it seemed reasonable to the Theremini developer, but adjusting high / low pitch limits to set the sensitivity / offset is rather like putting two volume controls on a stereo amplifier instead of balance / volume.  Most of the time you want the sensitivity to stay the same while you change the frequency offset, or vice-versa, but you are forced in virtually all situations to adjust both limits while crudely calculating things in your head.  And since you only get one shot at each limit while passing through all of the other "SETUP" options (the "SETUP" button behaves as a "forwards" menu button, there is no "backwards" button) it's painful to go back and forth between the limits.  Though I just noticed that you can speed this up quite a bit by holding the "SETUP" button down and twisting the "PRESETS" knob, which rapidly and bidirectionally takes you through all the options.  (I obviously didn't RTFM!  This press & hold & twist works for all of the buttons.)  Still, it's too fiddly.

The manual claims you can bypass any / all of the 5 calibration steps by smashing SETUP during the associated screen countdown.  Just tried that and it seems to work like they say.  A poor man's fine-tuning procedure, but a procedure nonetheless, and it's all we got at the moment.

I'm kind of curious as to why the have the "step away 1.5m" far field cal when they have both near and far hand cals for both antennas?  The whole cal thing is a riddle, wrapped in a mistake, inside an enema - particularly so in the way that it unexpectedly and dramatically screws with the linearity.

Thank you, Jesper! That is ALL I needed to know! I will not bother with it then :) You saved me lots of time and disapointment! <3

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Jesper wrote: @Amey I would strongly recommend trying one out before considering buying one. Many of the sounds are very good classic synth sounds but unfortunately the instrument plays and reacts very badly. It is by far the most unplayable "theremin" (for melodic work) I've ever encountered. It also fails as an instrument for effects and experimental stuff because it reacts so incredibly slowly to rapid hand gestures.

"The sounds in the preset bank are not all in the same sounding octave. Bass sounds are usually transposed an octave down etc. The usual sort of behavior you would expect from a synthesizer really. " - Jesper

IMO it doesnt matter (in fact, IMO its a good thing) that presets switch their registers appropriately..

But what would really bother me is when setting the note span - If I wanted to play a bass line in a bass preset, then I would want the display to show say C0 to C3 when I select a preset capable of going down to C0.. As in, I would expect the note span to be linked to the preset - How else, if one is doing anything serious, could one know that you have the correct span selected, or that the selected preset is suitable for the part you want to play?

The display of pitch playing is something I probably wouldn't be using much - but if its there, then IMO it should be right or it becomes confusing or at least even less useful for anything.

But I am being unfair and have balderdash expectations - I am making judgments as I would on any real electronic musical instruments .. I wouldn't walk into Toys'R'Us and expect a kiddies keyboard playstation with its mixing desk and microphone to compete with Juno GI.

Fred.

The endless design mistakes of the Theremini is a mystery. I'm upgrading to a Gakken Premium LOL

So far the Gakken sounds much more promising.   The Theremini has it's place in the market as a really cool instrument for a rock band or even a neat toy that may get an aspiring artist interested in a traditional theremin....but maybe everyone should just stop the thread right here. Analyzing the Theremini to death with all of the high tech talk in my opinion (or should I say IMO) is only giving Moog the undeserved publicity for a "garage band" sound effects device than it deserves.  

I will remain dedicated to my Subscope theremin that (IMO) is completely under rated on this site as one of the best instruments created since the Moog Etherwave Pro (which I also own and play).  Would someone please give Dominik some credit?   I grow to appreciate his instrument every day that I practice on it and it hasn't even received one page of discussion from any member on this site!

Amethyste, You know what I am talking about so don't waste your money on the Theremini...... if you come into an extra $300 spend it on a plane ticket to join me at the next New York Theremin Society concert ;^)